Your rights as a consumer

[BlueHoopedMoose]

**NOTE**
I am not a lawyer, nor do I profess to have an all-encompassing knowledge of Consumer Rights. However, the following points have helped both the wife and I in getting things replaced / full refunds so they may help someone out there. Please don't accept what I say as being gospel - research your case on it's individual merits and then take it from there.

This thread is intended as a general guide for what rights you as a consumer has, and how can you use these to get a refund / replacement / repair. I won't dwell on specific products (unlike Azure's rather marvellous dead pixel thread (http://community.matchbox360.co.uk/showthread.php?t=825)) but I will hopefully give you somewhere to start.

Firstly, read the DTI's fact sheet for the Sale of Goods act, found here. (http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html) Print a copy out and be prepared to take it to the retailer with you.

Decide what resolution you are looking for - do you want a full refund, a replacement, or would you be happy with a repair? Be realistic here - you are unlikey to get a full refund for a console that is 4 years old when a repair is a much more likely resolution.

When considering the point

Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

you must remember two things:

?€? If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)

?€? After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.

Use this to your advantage with a newer product, but be prepared to provide more evidence if you're dealing with something older. Internet reports, company statements (Microsoft admitting that the initial batch of 360's were more prone to hardware failures is a great example) and anything else you can lay your hands on is great.

Write a letter.
Even if you don't intend on sending it, draft a letter of complaint - use the following template:

[QUOTE]Your Name
Your Address
Tel No:

Date:

Company Name
Address


Dear Sir

[Reference: description of goods]

On (date) purchased (description of goods) from your store costing (

[Liam]

Very "profesh". That must have taken you ages...

Why did you write that bit at the top? its not like someones going to sue you for giving wrong legal advice. Apart from that, nice one :D My mum managed to get a refund on a car once :S Dont know how the hell she did that :eek:

[sub]

My mum managed to get a refund on a car once :S Dont know how the hell she did that :eek:

You are given a grace period with cars where by you can return them for a full refund (minus damage caused or excess wear in this time - ie. you do 10,000 miles in two weeks) if it has either been miss-sold, has a serious fault (a bad tyre doesn't count) or if you have taken the car out on credit in which case its two weeks refusal.

[KONSPIRACY]

Yeah one of my mates bought a car from a garage n within a few days the engine blew up. Having contacted the garage they agreed to collect the car from his home address...in the early hours of the morning the car was torched n my friend then had the ball ache of making an insurance claim.

Moral of the story...be extremely careful who you buy a car from!

[carocat]

Coming back to this, as MS admitted a few months ago that there is a problem with the Xbox 360's, does that still mean that they can be returned to the retailer based on:
Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

[KONSPIRACY]

Yeah but prepare to have a fight on your hands if you come across job worth staff in store.

[Zyber]

Yea, i had a go at M$ because they admitted this and i told them then the warranty doesn't matter because you sole me a product on merchantable quality. Then the nice lady in india told me to basically **** off. She also admitted that 10% of 360 do have this failure so it wasn't a pattern.

I'm sorry but 10% of 12Million is still 1.2Million and you don't think this is a pattern? Smart you are not!

[RazgriZ FX]

Yeah but prepare to have a fight on your hands if you come across job worth staff in store.

Fight I shall.



Just over a month ago (right before XL) my 360 encountered freezing which then in a couple of minutes turned to red rings. Thus unleashed my rage to the MS customs and within a week it was sent back to me "repaired".

I took down the serial no. of the 360 and confirmed that they had just "fixed" it and not replaced with a new one (like previous requests).

So with H3 coming out last week, most of the kHz members got it early (so you could call this punishment for me)... I also had the legendary edition on order which arrived last Wed, Euro launch. I spent all day at Uni to come home, carry on from where I left off, played 3 hours, then sppptttzzzz *freeze*

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*That kind of feeling when you've just been hit in the nuts by a flying brick kicks right in*

Turned off - turned on, find that "resume solo" puts me back where I was 3 hours ago and 2 seconds into play and spppptttzzz *freeze*

Off - on, 360 logo freezes, "Oh f***" - the same symptoms it had previously. I then glance over to the 360 and low and behold... 3 red rings flashing in my face.


*cue laughter*

Thankfully my mate brought himself a 360 last Thursday and have borrowed his to satisfy my Halo hunger.

Though that was after my attempt to get a replacement from GAME. The manager happened to be an automated machine and quite thee tard, so now I'm taking it up with GAME head office and trading standards playing by the Sales of Good Act (thanks Moose and bro).

Let's see what happens *fingers crossed*

[Azure]

Before you take it up with head office write and print out head offices letter.

Print out the sale of goods act, and write a letter to your local game informing them that youre telling game uk and trading standards.

Write and print out said letter to trading standards, then take the lot to your local game and show it to the manager saying you need his name for the documents.

They always fold.

[RazgriZ FX]

Ah, I sent the letters out Monday. One to head office and trading standards, informing them of the disgraceful customer care of the game manager I spoke to etc. Also a copy to that outlet.

Thing is, even though the warranty is only a year with game:

1. My 360/s haven't even lasted 8 months... ever.

Launch day Dec 2nd < (freezing) > Jan 06, NEW REPLACEMENT = late Feb 06

Newly replaced 360 again encounters freezing on 1st/2nd October?? Sent for replacement after Xmas 06, NEW REPLACEMENT = late Jan 07

Newly replaced 360 encounters red rings before XL around early July = they "repair" it this time so its the same 360 and get it back to me late July 07

"Repaired" 360 encounters red rings again on 26th September 07

So shouldnt that at least give me some rights to a claim?

2. The warranty with MS is 3 years, so does that or should it have any effect "technically"? =S


It is an absolute ball ache to go through with MS and obviously in theory should be easier and quicker to get a replacement with the retailer, seeing as the product was brought through them.

[Azure]

Warranties are null and void - they are meaningless and basically just good will gestures, try not to merge the word guarantee and warranty they are different beasties.

Your sale of goods act covers you for 6 years however. So kick their ass - any reasonable person paying ?280 or whatever for a 360 would reasonably expect it to last over 5 years.




[/quote]2. The warranty with MS is 3 years, so does that or should it have any effect "technically"? =S[/quote]

Gamers naturally dont expect them to live as well know the issues they have had it still doesn't change anything though. Warranties, and more importantly their policies do not in any way supercede your statutory rights - those being listed in the SOGA. Warranties are superfluous and no company has to offer one [because they are held accountable to SOGA] but they do and then use it to trick people into thinking they get 12 months then they're out cold - or that they offer you a 3 year warranty on their terms and you ought to be grateful or something, that's bullshit and they are just as accountable as ever - seriously, pretend the warranty doesn't even exist.

If any games console broke down inside 3 years it'd be going back for a replacement in my book. Their policy means nothing when held against retail law.

All you have to do is this bit,

Gamers naturally dont expect them to live as well know the issues they have had it still doesn't change anything though. Warranties, and more importantly their policies do not in any way supercede your statutory rights - those being listed in the SOGA.

Well you have already proven it doesn't conform to contract because it is broken and not working [the above quote is more relevent to things that are malfunctioning or not fit for purpose] and if you want to make it irrefutable get the quote from the MS person saying the launch batch of 360s were all ****ed and they're offering a 3 year warranty.

It proves they were inherently borked at time of purchase and in likelihood your replacement was someone elses borked then fixed 360 as well. Don't let them cheap talk out of it they try and take you for a mug - spank em.

[Tugsy]

Let us know the outcome of this, i'll be interested to know the result.

[NeoKubrick]

Don't consoles now come under as 'computers' and the act only covers them by one year?

[Azure]

I don't see where the SOGA has been amended to say computer components are to reasonably last 12 months :P

Rather I see intel and mobo companies offering 3 and 5 year warranties instead.

[KONSPIRACY]

It worked for me but it didnt get resolved until I took it to their head office, threatened with action as per above and within an hour they had arranged for me to collect a replacement from in store. The chances of gettin a jobs worth to exchange in store without consent from someone in a higher position are slim so get your facts straight, and argue your case intelligently and calmly.

[RazgriZ FX]

Without asking, my dad has got onto them whilst I'm at Uni can you believe =O

So supposedly he attached the letter I sent and they respond with this:

Subject: RE: Complaints
> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 10:00:51 +0100
> From: Louise.Collumbell@game.co.uk
> To: ***@hotmail.co.uk
>
> Hello
>
>
> Thank you for your e-mail.
>
>
>
> I'm sorry you're having problems with your 360 console. The Sale of
> Goods Act states that goods when sold should meet three main tenets:
> correspond with the description, be of satisfactory quality and be fit
> for the purpose. These are your statutory rights but in addition a
> retailer or supplier may offer a guarantee or warranty on top - in most
> instances for a year, promising that the goods will be free from
> manufacturing defects for the first year from the date of purchase.
>
>
>
> When you bought your Xbox 360 we offered a 1 year warranty. Once a
> warranty period has expired a consumer can seek redress under their
> statutory rights and the issue with this particular product is that
> should it be expected to last longer than 12 months. Well we are pleased
> to say that Microsoft has listened to the feedback from both customers
> and retailers alike about this particular issue. As a result, they have
> instigated a free replace or repair process for any unit that displays
> the 3 red light issue during the first 3 years from the date of the
> original purchase - they want to own this issue and as such they are
> requesting that customers in this situation contact them directly on
> free phone number 0800 5871102. They will be able to advise on what you
> need to do to get your unit fixed. All repaired/replaced units come with
> one months free subscription to Xbox live to compensate for any downtime
> on your account.
>
>
>
>
> I hope this is helpful to you, however if you have any further queries
> or comments please don't hesitate to contact Customer Services
> Monday-Saturday 9:00am - 6:00pm on 0871 200 1221.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Louise
> Customer Services
>
> Game Stores Group Ltd
> Unity House
> Telford Road
> Basingstoke
> Hampshire
> RG21 6YJ


The message my dad sent:


> Sent: 27 September 2007 20:21
> To: GAME Customer Services
> Subject: Complaints
>
> Dear Sir/Madam,
>
> I attach a formal letter of complaint my son is sending by post. re an
> Xbox.
>
> Please reply within 24 hours!
>
> I still await a reply to e-mails I have sent in the last two weeks.
> Plus, on average it is taking 20 to 25 minutes for your Customer
> Services
> Department to answer the telephone.
>
> All of this is totally unacceptable and dreadful customer service.
>
> I trust it will NOT become necessary to take the matter of Customer
> Service
> up with your Chief Executive's Office, and beyond that, with the Media!

As you say Azure, SoGA makes it illegible up to 5-6 years.

Obviously lets see what I get in response to the letters I sent to head office and trading standards.

[KONSPIRACY]

Basically, they admit that the console is faulty at the time of purchase and acknowledge that Microsoft have recognised the issue with their replacement programme. What you need to do now is tell them that the goods were inherently faulty at the time of purchase and in accordance with the Sales of Goods Act it is the retailors obligation to replace not Microsofts.

TBH it would be quicker to just get it sent back to M$.

[Azure]

When you bought your Xbox 360 we offered a 1 year warranty. Once a
> warranty period has expired a consumer can seek redress under their
> statutory rights and the issue with this particular product is that
> should it be expected to last longer than 12 months. Well we are pleased
> to say that Microsoft has listened to the feedback from both customers
> and retailers alike about this particular issue. As a result, they have
> instigated a free replace or repair process for any unit that displays
> the 3 red light issue during the first 3 years from the date of the
> original purchase - they want to own this issue and as such they are
> requesting that customers in this situation contact them directly on
> free phone number 0800 5871102. They will be able to advise on what you
> need to do to get your unit fixed. All repaired/replaced units come with
> one months free subscription to Xbox live to compensate for any downtime
> on your account.

That is the doozy there - it amounts to "Fortunately for you MS is taking on this issue and are kindly offering a 3 year warranty".

The response to that entire paragraph is "**** off - you sold me the unit i dont give a flying, flaming poodle what MS are or are not offering you will fix my xbox 360 as described by law.

[KONSPIRACY]

Nail. Head. Spot on.

They've basically admitted that the console they sold you was faultly at the time of purchase, so they are responsible for an immediate replacement regardless of Microsofts replacement programme. The wording is clear for all to see in the Sales of Goods Act and they are obligated by law to replace your console.

[Azure]

Exactly, for all you care MS might not even offer a warranty at all in any shape or form and they might charge ?5,000,000,000 to fix a 360 - you.just.dont.care they have to fix it regardless, never let them speak about what the manufacturer is doing. It's just a red herring trying to draw you away from the law that costs them money, don't buy into it one bit, never let them walk you out the shop with a number to ring at ms never let them say we can't or we won't because the manufacturer is handling it, or not.

RETAILER is responsible. God it pisses me off, I took command and conquer 3 back to game [PC version] and said it was not fit for purpose as the online is always ****ed one way or another and they looked gobsmacked I would even try.

"We didnt make the game we aren't responsible for how they code it!"

Oh they screamed about it for 15 minutes but out came mr SOGA and out I go with my money back.

[KONSPIRACY]

Amen.

[RazgriZ FX]

Yeah, I'm going to respond to that Louise at GAME at tell her how it is ^ Just been away for a couple of days.

Heh some nice work there Azure haha =P

[Pirate Balloon]

Yeah, I'm going to respond to that Louise at GAME at tell her how it is^sounds like you'll either end up in court getting your money back or in court getting done for sexual harrasment, it's a fun 50/50 chance!

[KONSPIRACY]

lmfao :D

[RazgriZ FX]

:@ Friggin Uni. So I've been a bit delayed in sending an email and was just finishing it off when I had a call from Trading Standards.

I've explained as best I could what happened and the whole why I think I'm entitled to a replacement and as such they are going to ring GAME head office and see what they can do.

If it's unsuccessful because obviously they can't force the retailer to do anything, they did say I can take them to court.

*fingers crossed*

[KONSPIRACY]

You could have sent it back to M$ n received your replacement by now bro! :D

[RazgriZ FX]

Yeah I know, but I've taken it up with GAME so m3h.

Obviously it's been over 2 weeks since I sent the letter, though I've borrowed my mates 360 to keep me occupied and with Uni also keeping me busy, it's given me reason not to chase up in some silly way.

Anyway I've forced his 360 out my room and now I can do some work XD and actually concentrate on getting my 360 back.

MS repairs are arseholes anyway and it would of taken them this long to get it back if not more. Plus you could say the reason I don't want to send it for repairs is because the ****s were supposed to of "repaired" it over a month ago, so why go through the hassle once more in another month if they can't repair it properly?

Rather take the risk and get a replacement but it's taking the piss, espeically with Royal Fail going on strike which has f'd deliveries up completely.

[FiveOhOne]

You could have sent it back to M$ n received your replacement by now bro! :D


It's the principle!

[Azure]

Small claims court will have them squealing like *****es. They'll throw 360s at you then, also tell them you're getting in contact with MS directly and conveying how disgusting game's service has been and that they [ms] ought to be concerned.

[RazgriZ FX]

Yeah I mentioned about the small claims court so hopefully that may change their answer. The woman I spoke to from Trading Standards said she sent an email to this Louise at GAME and demands that she has a response within 7 days.

I also sent an email responding to Louise's initial reply to my dad.

That was like what, last Monday? (15th) Still no response to either of us.

[FiveOhOne]

Having had the the three RROD appear this afternoon, and one call to my local Game, I've just sent the following mail to them:

Hello,

This is a two pointed issue, firstly I would like to make a personal complaint about 'Craig' in your Washington, Tyne & Wear store. Apparently this gentleman is a manager, and I am quite frankly disgusted by the manner and the tone of voice in which he quite bluntly told me that not only did the Sale of Goods act not apply to me, even though I purchased my 360 from your store, but that he didn't care in the slightest and refused to acknowledge that he held any responsibility what so ever.
I request that you provide me full details of exactly what you plan to do to resolve this situation.

Regarding my 360 which I purchased from the above store in February of 2006, and the three red lights it is currently displaying, unfortunately the law begs to differ with Craig's opinion on the subject. You as the retailer I purchased my 360 from are obliged to replace any hardware purchased from yourselves that was inherently faulty at the time of purchase. Microsoft having issued the extended 3 year warranty have confirmed that the early Xbox 360 models were faulty. I did not purchase my unit from Microsoft however, I purchased it from yourselves, and this is why I ask that you replace my hardware.

Some particularly relevant quotes from the DTI website with regards to the Sale Of Goods Act:

"Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale)."

- As per described by Microsoft, the goods were in fact inherently faulty at the time of sale.

"It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract."

- Clearly, this is your problem, and you are obligated to provide me with a replacement, not Microsoft. I suggest you make Craig aware of this.

http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html


I expect to be contacted via phone within the next 48 hours, should this not occur then I shall be lodging a complaint with the Small Claims court and bringing the matter to the attention of Trading Standards.

Sincerely,

Jay Snee

[Tugsy]

Kill him Jay.

[FiveOhOne]

*on the blower to Game head office*

[carocat]

I like it. You go Jay.

[FiveOhOne]

Have been screwed around by the 'Consumer hotline'.

Going for jugular.

[Tugsy]

Outrage cat demands satisfcation.

[FiveOhOne]

Dear ,

Firstly my apologies for contacting you directly, however having gone via my local store, and then your consumer services contact center and having received severely substandard service from each, I feel I have no option but to go straight for the top, and unfortunately, this means yourself.

The issue itself is a simple one. This afternoon my Xbox 360 exhibited the all too common 3 red rings. All I ask is that, as per the Sale Of Goods Act 1979 (as amended), you replace the hardware on a like-for-like basis.

However, so far I have contacted the manager of your Washington, Tyne and Wear branch, and been told in no uncertain terms, that the Sale of Goods act does not apply, and that I have to take the issue up with the manufacturer.

I beg to differ on both points.

Taken from the DTI's website:

"Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale)."

"What is an inherent fault?

"A fault present at the time of purchase. Examples are:
• an error in design so that a product is manufactured incorrectly
• an error in manufacturing where a faulty component was inserted.
The "fault" may not become apparent immediately but it was there at the time of sale and so the product was not of satisfactory standard."

- Microsoft themselves have extended the warranty on these units to three years, on the basis that there is a known manufacturing issue.

"It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract."

- I did not buy the unit directly from Microsoft, I bought it from yourselves. As such, am I well within my rights to take the issue up with yourselves.


"For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement). A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement."

- I would honestly expect a product of this nature and value to last at least 3 years, rather than 6. I feel 3 years is a fair life span, however this unit has lasted less than two, and as such, again, I am well within my rights to request a replacement.

"Is it true that I have to complain to the manufacturer? No. You bought the goods from the trader, not the manufacturer, and the trader is liable for any breaches of contract (unless he was acting as the manufacturer's agent)."

- Again, I have taken the matter up with yourselves, and it is your responsibility to resolve this matter.

I would also like to lodge personal complaints against Craig who's tone, and general attitude was quite frankly disgusting, and also a young lady named 'Miranda' at your Consumer contact centre. Miranda, initially was extremely helpful and promised that I would be able to collect my replacement, from the store this afternoon. I specifically made her aware that the unit was out of its 12 month warranty, however she proceeded regardless, and we left the first call so she could contact the store manager to arrange the collection.

On calling back however, she now described that since the unit was outside of the 12 month warranty (as I had previously mentioned to her) she would be unable to process the replacement, regardless that she had already said it would take place. I asked to speak to a manager, and was told by Miranda, that none of the managerial staff were actually able to walk, and could not come to the phone. Whilst I find this hard to believe, it is possible, so I was more than happy to wait until a manager became available. At this point Miranda became extremely defensive, and ended up terminating the call, whilst I was mid sentence. I would like to mention, that having spent a large portion of my adult life, working in and for contact centres, I know that shouting and being abusive to staff will never get you anywhere, and as such I was polite and friendly to the last.

I await your response on the above issues, however I am quite prepared to take the issue to Trading Standards, and the Small claims court should the solution I am seeking not be forth coming. Below are the details pertinent to this issue:

Original 360 purchase details:

{purchase details}

The above were confirmed using my Game reward card: XXXX XXXX XXXX X

Miranda had issues finding my details, the store generally do also, so my name and address are also below:

Jay Snee
{My address}

Sincerely,

Jay Snee





Awaiting a response.

[FiveOhOne]

After trying to give me the ol'

well we'll have to send it to MS..

NO YOU BLOODY WON'T! IT'S MY PREROGATIVE AND YOU'LL BE GETTING ME A BLOODY REPLACEMENT!

I've got the customer services manager for the UK, trying to hunt me down a preowned unit they can do me a straight swap for.

[FiveOhOne]

Pwnd.

They're shipping a console (pre-owned, but thats fair enough, I'd get the same from MS) to the Game store next to my office for pick up on Thursday.

[Spindryer]

Still not as good as Quickshot got... But not bad (Y).

[KONSPIRACY]

I asked to speak to a manager, and was told by Miranda, that none of the managerial staff were actually able to walk, and could not come to the phone. Whilst I find this hard to believe, it is possible...

No offense intended, but are all their staff physically impaired or all carrying serious injuries. I would also find it hard to believe! lol :D

[FiveOhOne]

Exactly. Dirty, Dirty Game.

[Pirate Balloon]

Me and Liam offer the official scouse powerhouse petrol bombing service if you're not satisfied with Game's service?

[FiveOhOne]

Whats your rates?

[sub]

Whats your rates?

I think they still go for a bottle of bucky and a mars bar. :P

[BlueHoopedMoose]

Moose <3 SoGA... Moose <3 Rain!

I love all this power to the people shiznit!!!!

[FiveOhOne]

Been on to trading standards this morning, just to be 100%, and whilst their not obligated to give me a 'new' unit, should this one screw up them I'm entitled to damages to the the tune of how ever much a Core (or lowest spec xbox at the time..) costs, instead of having to accept a pre-owned every time :D

[quickshot89]

lol, shoulda bought from pc world ;)

[FiveOhOne]

I know, but then I'd burn in hell for the rest of eternity

(hell is actually heated by 4 360's with the fans removed -FACT!)

[quickshot89]

yeah, but at least you would have an elite brand new :P

[RazgriZ FX]

Nice work Jay!

My response so far, nothing in accordance to my letter or email and trading standards have not received anything from GAME in their enquiry.

Though what TS have said is they expect a reply within 7 - 30 days =/

So when I'm "free" I'll be ringing up my friend Rebecca at TS to see what else can be done to "push" things along.

[FiveOhOne]

o0o0o0o0o0o0o0ooo

The Saga continues!

Having got hold of said replacement yesterday, and battering Halo for a few hours last night, I've come to be aware of a pair of 'quirks' affecting this unit, which whilst they don't really affect the use of the unit at the moment, I'm sure either one will come back to haunt me.

The 'quirks' being:

#1: The ring of light on the front of the console.

I'm sure we're all aware of how this is supposed to work, plug in pad, and quadrant one on both the console and the controller light up indicating which pad your using. Well, on the controller this is fine, and remains as player one consistently. I'm only using my wired pad, and I've not even bothered pairing my wireless one yet, so there is 100% only 1 controller in effect here, however, the ring on the front of the 360 intermittently (about every 15 seconds) switches from the first quadrant to the second quadrant being lit, and then back again. Having thought about this some more, the only possible reason I can think of this happening is there being a problem with the motion sensor within the console. The console itself is stood vertically on a level laminate floor, so it's not tilted or anything like that, and as it's vertical, there's no way I could have anything resting on top of it which might affect it. This is annoying, and may indicate damage to the unit's main board, but at present poses little threat.

#2: The optical drive.

This is certainly the more worrying of the problems. When the disk initially spins up in the drive (for example when loading a game at the outset, or when loading content on the disc - the Halo maps being my primary example) there's a very, very worrying high pitched 'zzzzzzt' noise. I've been around enough optical drives, and even enough 360 optical drives in my time to know that this is the wrong noise, and indicates the drive is remarkably unwell.


So, Game have provided me with faulty hardware. Again.

I shall be contacting my man David at Game HQ again this morning.

[Azure]

I used to get the optical noise, sounded like an angle grinder.

[sub]

#1 is due to the orientation switch inside the machine, I had it with my first 360, doesn't do any damage it's just a bit annoying.

#2 sounds like a dying drive.

[FiveOhOne]

#1 is due to the orientation switch inside the machine, I had it with my first 360, doesn't do any damage it's just a bit annoying.

#2 sounds like a dying drive.


Either one would class the machine as faulty though, no?

[RazgriZ FX]

I had that noise when my 360 fell to red rings, I removed the disk and wallah, a bb sized pellet mark was imprinted onto my legendary disk.

Turns out that I cannot load High Ground.

[Pirate Balloon]

I hope everyone gets what they deserve as a consumer.

This reminds me of the fun i had with John Lewis' and minidv camcorders.

"It's a mechanical fault, which is covered by warrantee"
"naw mert, that's mis-use"
"warantee covers electrical and mechanical failure, and seeing as how i work with these types of problems on a day-today basis, i think i know what one is."
This was all because when i tried to switch it to play mode the plastic selector switch literally fell off in my hands. The guy even brought out his stern looking supervisor, but we lay the smackdown on that hoe, multiple times if i remember correctly.

20 mins later they send it off to Panasonic for free rapair. In total they've gave us 3 free repars, 1 completely band new updated model, and 1 repair on that. Tape mechanism failure, i love you (even the time when it was because i half buried it in the sand, but sssh).

Luckily we got it from a half-decent retailer, i can only begin to imagine the fun we'd have at somewhere like currys or comet *cringe* "should have bought the extended guarantee lad! Aight i'll just go get my... supervisor..?" *ESCAPES DOWN SECRET TRAPDOOR*

[RazgriZ FX]

A letter I asked for from Trading Standards:

CLICK (http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1855/fromtsbrumbk1.jpg)

GAME finally replied, oh dear...

CLICK (http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9979/bsfromgamerj3.jpg)


Still pushing the blame over to MS. Saying MS want the goods and should stop bugging the retailers.

Also you can see a nice copy and paste job, pretty repetitive, because a large chunk of that is what I was told by a Louise from GAME:

I'm sorry you're having problems with your 360 console. The Sale of Goods Act states that goods when sold should meet three main tenets: correspond with the description, be of satisfactory quality and be fit for the purpose. These are your statutory rights but in addition a retailer or supplier may offer a guarantee or warranty on top - in most instances for a year, promising that the goods will be free from manufacturing defects for the first year from the date of purchase.

[Azure]

****ing pwn him.

Say something like.

"Ok this is written in English, if you read it from left to right we might start getting somewhere. The sale of goods act says you are responsible - I do not care at all what MS is doing that is your problem. I want this issue fixing as I have described inside 5 working days or I will seek redress in the small claims court along with compensation for the stress this has put me through, and the inordinate amount of time you have wasted. As you have already said the courts can settle the terms of "satisfactory" and "reasonable" and I am supremely confident that such a course of action will only display the incompetency of game and their unwillingness to fulfill their moral and legal obligations to their consumers."

[FiveOhOne]

I'm not going to add anything further to this thread. For the time being. Once my issue is 'closed' I'll be writing a news article r.e. all this. David, my man at Game, has agreed to comment on behalf of game. I'll be using your scans if thats ok James?

[RazgriZ FX]

Go for it =)

[Azure]

"We here at game suck dick - you all know this so don't shop here".


I'm looking forwards to his representation of game tbh.

[Spindryer]

Just seen that a company called Gamestop have stopped selling product replacement warranties on 360's. A sign of things to come in the UK?

Link: http://www.gamersreports.com/news/6842/gamestop-no-longer-selling-360-replacement-plans-images/

[carocat]

That's in the US where I'm pretty sure they have different trading standards.

[kHz Glitch]

That's in the US where I'm pretty sure they have different trading standards.

Yeah, their the US/Canada's game giant that buy's up all other game companys. So no more warantees on 360s for most of the US:eek:

Also: Good luck with your cases everybody

[RazgriZ FX]

I got an email today from TS, looks like she got a response from Louise and GAME are prepared to send the 360 off for repairs to MS... HAHAHA... >_>

Dear Mr Barnes Sorry I was on leave on Friday. I did receive a response from Louise andshe said that Game are now offering for 'Mr Barnes to send the console tous and we will post the console on to Microsoft to carry out a repair oroffer a replacement.'

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 states that when there is a breach of contract the trader must provide the remedy to that breach of contract. However, acourt may agree that for Game to obtain the console from you and then post the console off to the manufacturer that Game has done enough as regards the Sale of Goods Act. I have responded to Louise today to remind her that the Sale of Goods Act states that where a repair is offered it must be done without causing significant inconvience to you and in this respect will they offer you a loan console whilst you wait for yours to be looked at by Microsoft?

Please note though that if Game will not give in, it may not be in yourbest interests to sue them as they will argue that they wanted to adhere to their Sale of Goods Act duties by sending the item to their manufacturer to have it inspected but you refused. If Game will not change their mind you may as well deal with the manufacturer directly to avoid the rigmorole Game are suggesting.

I will let you know Game's response.

Kind Regards

Rebecca Hauxwell
Enforcement Officer
Trading Standards Birmingham

I responded to Rebecca saying that I'd prefer an immediate replacement whilst they send my unit off for repairs and they can keep the "repaired" system because all in all they don't loose out on a unit and they have messed me around for over a month so call it "compensation".

[BlueHoopedMoose]

Just had my replacement 360 from Feb die on me with the old "Ha!! 3 red rings!! No Halo for you tonight Mooseychops!" so it looks like I'm off to Game tomorrow. Good job I have the day off work and am quite prepared to argue my case all day long. Squatters rights FTW!

Yours,

Miffed Moose

[RazgriZ FX]

I'd like to know how it turns out, good luck dude.

[KONSPIRACY]

We should keep a log of successful cases per store chain so whenever someone has to go into battle then they can check their records and will immediately have to match the replacement as per other successful customers.

[BlueHoopedMoose]

Well, that was rather uneventful!

Strolled in, told the lass behind the counter my problem she then got the manager. He got a minion to test my Xbox, who then came out with a replacement for me. With my old hard disk on it. Kerching.

Bit gutted they didn't argue - was gonna try the old "Look, this is two consoles in two years. I reckon we're verging on refund territory so how about you just give me an Elite?" but ho-hum - beggars can't be choosers right?!

[FiveOhOne]

Is it a new, or a pre-owned?

[BlueHoopedMoose]

Brand spanking new. Still has all the lovely protective film bits, and has a manufacturing date of about 1 month ago :D

[FiveOhOne]

I See.

[quickshot89]

Brand spanking new. Still has all the lovely protective film bits, and has a manufacturing date of about 1 month ago :D

you still wont beat me in replacements :P

[Innes]

you still wont beat me in replacements :P

you mean your dad.

[quickshot89]

you mean your dad.

no, i did all the work, go read the topic

[RazgriZ FX]

Well, that was rather uneventful!

Strolled in, told the lass behind the counter my problem she then got the manager. He got a minion to test my Xbox, who then came out with a replacement for me. With my old hard disk on it. Kerching.

Bit gutted they didn't argue - was gonna try the old "Look, this is two consoles in two years. I reckon we're verging on refund territory so how about you just give me an Elite?" but ho-hum - beggars can't be choosers right?!

YOU ARE ******* KIDDING ME!? :eek:

DUDE, come over to Sutton and sort mine? :D

Serious though, that's a result and awesome, but wtf, that's all I want, a new shiny Xbox 360 that was built this year.

Come on, ffs it's been what, a month & a week since mine packed it in.

Ah! It's so damn agrovating >=(


Again nice job though.

[Spindryer]

Yeah it was a good result, shows there are staff that can help at these retailers.

[FiveOhOne]

Shows their policies are screwed. We've got 3 people with the same problem, getting 3 different results.

[BlueHoopedMoose]

Policies my ass - the SoGA is quite straight-forward on things like this, and even more so when the manufacturer has admitted there is a problem. There is only one policy, and that is the law.

Phrases I used when claiming my first replacement included:

"So, you're telling me that your company policy supersedes the law as written by Parliament, and enforced by Her Majesty's Courts of Law?"

"When you accepted my monies for this 360 this formed a contract between me and you. You have your own contract with the supplier, in this case Microsoft. Its up to you to claim for faults under your contract."

"My rights do not come to an end after 12 months, simply because the manufacturer's guarantee has expired"

[RazgriZ FX]

Anything I said was frowned upon almost but replied with an automated machine man zombie: "microsoft's problem, microsoft's problem, microsoft's problem".

Sent an email to Rebecca yesterday, response:

I can understand why you are so frustrated but I can only advise you inrelation to the law not the unfairness of some Games stores compared with others. In Game offering to take the console from you to get it sent to Microsoft this is sufficient in the eyes of the law. I have tried to use the 'without significant' inconvience angle to try to push Game into a corner but I cannot really do much more than the law allows I am afraid. I will let you know what Louise comes back with.

Regards
Rebecca Hauxwell
Enforcement Officer


edit: F*** it.

My original plan was to go to GAME in Derby and play a lil something, but last night I borrowed a mates 360 and spoke to a team mate, they heard from some guy that you can get an elite if you've had more than 3 consoles break on you.

What it really is, is that if your console is going in for a 3rd repair they will give you a free gift and do a speed repair or something like that.

But I've told them I'm going to upgrade to an elite as they overcome any problems encountered with the premiums.

They put me through to a supervisor to carry on the process BUT I've been stook on hold for the past 10mins so this sucks! Espeically the brain mushing, totally depressing - slit your wrists, soul killing music being played down my ear!! Ahhhh!!!!

edit:

Ghey.

The free gift is a selection of 1 of 4 games and 1 of 3 accessories.

Yay I thought BUT the problem is:

Games:
PGR3
Kameo
PDZ
Viva Pinata

^ Got them all and clocked them =/

Accessories:
Wireless controller
Wireless or wired headset (cant remember which)
Play n charge

^ Chose another pad, but hey my other one's is knackered and I got 2 play n charges =O


Also I will be getting a speed repair.


edit: Just had this email -

Dear Mr Barnes

Please find below the response from Game as you can see they will not give in at all and I have no powers to force them to uphold your statutory rights only a county court can do this.

You are now left with 2 options, the first to go direct to Microsoft and deal with them directly or the second to sue Game. Please note if you choose to sue Game you must bear in mind my comments from my last email to you (I have pasted below). Taking court action is always a risk and if you lose the case you lose your fee and you may have costs awarded against you.

For information purposes please find here the link for Money Claim Online which is a way to issue court proceedings using the internet. http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/onlineservices/mcol/index.htm

Also please find here a link to the court service website which gives general information on taking court action.
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/index.htm

If you have any other questions regarding your case or taking court action please do not hesitate to contact me.

I am sorry that we have been unable to persuade Game to change their position on your behalf.

Kind Regards

Rebecca Hauxwell
Enforcement Officer
Trading Standards Birmingham

**** GAME, they've lost a customer!


edit:

Ghey! I've just found out, a friend of a friend works at GAME in Derby, he said it's not really about policy, it's about the manager. That's already been said before and I know of this. Obviously if the manager is a dick you ain't getting anywhere but if the manager is laid back and cool, then your all good.

What's really a kick in the nuts is the fact he said he would of asked the manager, being his mate and all it would of gone something like this; "hey bud, my mate is in a bit of a **** and could use a hand with replacing his 360, its alright to give him this new one isn't it?", manager responds, "yeah of course man".

Yippie!! After waiting all of this time I give in, just to find out a few hours later it would of been "ok" for me to trade it in courtesy of a friend of a friend...... LAME!!!!!!!!!