Byox?

[KONSPIRACY]

MatchBox360 XL will continue to offer competitive tournaments throughout 2007, but with a limited amount of consoles (58 at the last event) freeplay can tend to be limited whilst the tournaments are in progress. We aim to provide more consoles at our XL events, but having the option to BYOX (Bring Your Own Xbox) would guarantee gamers more freeplay at their consoles...

Would you like to bring your own Xbox or Xbox 360 to MatchBox360 XL LAN events? If so, how much would you be prepared to pay to hire your space?...or would you be worried about it getting damaged or stolen?

We are always looking at ways of improving our services to the gamers and listen to your feedback, so please answer the simple poll above and leave your comments below :cool:

[DayC]

I wouldn't really be too bothered if the xbox got damaged its more of a case of getting the console to the venue would be a real problem with some clothes and food etc.

[BIG D 04]

I wouldn't mind but I wouldn't be that keen on it as I'm a bit too protective over my stuff. So I voted No, getting it to a Venue wouldn't be any trouble as I'd be driving I'd just throw it in the Back.

[Liam]

DayC is from Liverpool so he would probably steal it :eek: thats why i voted no :)

[KONSPIRACY]

lmao :D

Yeah we are aware of the issues of players transporting n looking after their consoles. Unfortunately console gaming is a world apart from PC LANs where it is the norm to take your own computer n it is a lot to expect ppl to bring their own console esp as most gamers will be travelling via public transport. However, we have received numerous requests from ppl wanting to BYOX, hence the poll to help to determine whether it is a viable option. :cool:

[Liam]

I suppose if it would mean more free play it is a good idea. Last time it was quite hard to get a game, if a lot of people were to bring one it would be great. The only problems are transportation (coz they weigh 30 tonnes and are about 93 miles wide) and if they get damaged or stolen. :)

[Phoenixology]

I think having the option to BYOX is a good idea. I myself run a similar Xbox event where you do bring your own, but i advise you offer security such as kensington locks or cctv to your guests, especially as when they leave the venue to sleep, etc.

[Liam]

I think having the option to BYOX is a good idea. I myself run a similar Xbox event where you do bring your own, but i advise you offer security such as kensington locks or cctv to your guests, especially as when they leave the venue to sleep, etc.


Locks are a good idea. It means you can leave your xbox at the venue overnight and it will be secure. Nice idea Phoenix :)

[Phoenixology]

I didnt go to the last XL but hope to come to XL 2007, but was wondering if you could be at the venue 24 hours a day?

[KONSPIRACY]

We're currently in the process of confirming venue n dates...but it is a possibility (cant say anymore at this time).

What cases/locks are using for your event. Hit me up on msn or email :cool:

[I KrAzYkInG I]

To be honest I don't really understand how this would work? So you would pay money to rent out a station space to keep your xbox in?

[KONSPIRACY]

I havent thought about it too much yet as this poll is based on a number of requests. As such theres a number of ways that it could be done...off the top of my head:

1. ppl bring their own tv n console...basically pay a small charge for their "space".
2. ppl bring their own console n we provide screen...a higher charge for their "space".

Then you have the question of whether it would be a daily charge or hourly charge...so its all debateable n would purely be based on demand (hence the poll) :cool:

[Pie In The Sky]

Once you have your space, I take it that only you can play there.
But that also opens the idea buying your space, then renting it out to other players. Haha now theres a business idea if ever I saw one.

[zcaliber]

Doing it that way could become very complicated and messy. People would have to constantly watch over their space to make sure people didn't touch their s**t, and personally, I wouldn't be willing to pay extra for a space..
One way you could deal with this would be to make a BYOX Freeplay area, with just a loada TVs, where people can just plug their Xbox in and play when they want, then put it back in their bag or whatever afterwards. Just an idea.

Also, I'd advise in waiting for posts before making a poll, then, with those opinions in mind, put down some solid terms, along with a Poll. With such expensive equipment on the line, the details will make all the difference to what people think.

[DayC]

One way you could deal with this would be to make a BYOX Freeplay area, with just a loada TVs, where people can just plug their Xbox in and play when they want, then put it back in their bag or whatever afterwards. Just an idea.

Brilliant idea, Chris this idea should be seriously thought about, I'm sure people wouldn't mind paying for there own private room (where they can have lots of games for fun and socialise along the way) especially those people who may just come for the Halo 2 FFA or whatever and then can't get on a free play station because the same dickhead stays on the console for 10 goes before they get bored.

[KONSPIRACY]

One way you could deal with this would be to make a BYOX Freeplay area, with just a loada TVs, where people can just plug their Xbox in and play when they want, then put it back in their bag or whatever afterwards. Just an idea.

Also, I'd advise in waiting for posts before making a poll, then, with those opinions in mind, put down some solid terms, along with a Poll. With such expensive equipment on the line, the details will make all the difference to what people think.
Yeah thats what I was on about mate...I thought it was pretty obvious so didnt think I would have to be so specific tbh! lol So yes, my thoughts would be that if it happened BYOX would be in addition to the tournament consoles n not as part of, hence having its own dedicated "area".

The only reason for the poll is cos I've received numerous personal requests for ppl to bring their own consoles n to get an early indication on how many other ppl would be interested...may be again I should have been more specific. When we have more of an idea of how many would be like to do this then its viability will be considered.

[o0 Kali 0o]

I think its a fab idear and so does my team,We are all happy to bring our own xbox's, have our own space and pay for the privilege.
If u cant afford it then save ..
and why would i need to look over my shoulder for my xbox, im ganna be playing on it.

Noones going to make ya do it so there no proplem all.
It adds is more chance to play.
I remember alot of people complaing about that...Well proplem solved!
Id pay a max of 30 pounds for a full day per xbox

:p

[Mazzy]

interesting idea, but it could get messy. with people switching there consoles round and someone saying someone nicked there console.....

[zcaliber]

Yeah thats what I was on about mate...I thought it was pretty obvious so didnt think I would have to be so specific tbh! lol So yes, my thoughts would be that if it happened BYOX would be in addition to the tournament consoles n not as part of, hence having its own dedicated "area".

The only reason for the poll is cos I've received numerous personal requests for ppl to bring their own consoles n to get an early indication on how many other ppl would be interested...may be again I should have been more specific. When we have more of an idea of how many would be like to do this then its viability will be considered.


I'm pretty sure what I meant was different. I don't know about the actual physical set up of things cause I haven't been to an event like that. I was thinking like just put a loada TVs somewhere and let people sort out freeplay by themselves. Then the responsibility, and xbox supply, both comes down to them. I mean for free aswell, 8-)

[KONSPIRACY]

Unfortunately running a LAN event isnt quite as simple as dumping a load of TVs n lettin ppl get on with it...if only! lmao :D

Yeah you're close to what I was trying to say...but unfortunately things like TVs cost money so theres no way we could do it for free unless you wanna pay for them?! :eek: :D

To ensure there are minimal problems with the BYOX area, it would also need to be supervised to an extent. :cool:

[zcaliber]

Well people pay an entry fee don't they. Free play that's free would just be.. normal.. really, I thought it was anyway, but yea, I see what you mean

[DayC]

Yeah Chris how much porfit did XL make once you'd paid the staff for their work? Wouldn't that be enough for more TV's? Or wasn't there much money made at all?

[Mazzy]

Yeah Chris how much porfit did XL make once you'd paid the staff for their work? Wouldn't that be enough for more TV's? Or wasn't there much money made at all?

yeah, cos we got paid didnt we. we spent the best part of 90 hours without sleep, working for money. right........and yeah thats about right, we had very little sleep. i had 2 hours sleep on one of the nights. when we all crashed at kons. but yeah we got paid........ and yeah the 500 miles i put on the car......yeah we got paid........and the 1 meal a day at subways....we got paid...........we got paid......right.........

ps we didnt get paid.

[KONSPIRACY]

Unfortunately not one single member of staff got paid at XL mate...we simply couldnt afford it. A lot of rumours n malicious lies have been spread about XL so simply dont believe any of it.

It would be correct to say that we made a small profit...but anyone can sit there tappin figures into a calculator n come up with all kinds of wonderful profits that are quite simply inaccurate...unless you have seen the accounts or know what we paid in costs & all the hidden costs that we are still paying.

:cool:

[o0 Kali 0o]

what about if you paid for the tv to and get them on hire wouldnt u make that money back anyway?
And to insure u did get a tv you would have to perbook ur tv in advance.

[Spindryer]

We didnt get paid and nor did we ask to, We knew the deal before we weekend started. What im still unsure about is that if ppl bring there own Xbox and "hire" a TV will that mean that "that tv" cant be used for anything else that day or even more puzzling does that mean the person who brought there Xbox has to lend it out or carry it around with them all day?

[sub]

The setup could be like this (disclaimer: this is me talking as non-staff just throwing ideas around):

Setup rows and rows of tables and allow people to, when booking, decide if they want to take a table and bring their own console or want to hire one of XL's and vary the price accordingly (of course let people have the choice of bringing their own monitor as well for 360's a little TFT is much nicer than a SDTV) and simply run the event with people sat in their own seat, means they can hop around on free play as they choose. Would be fine for team games as well since most teams would, when booking, request X number of seats together.

[DayC]

yeah, cos we got paid didnt we. we spent the best part of 90 hours without sleep, working for money. right........and yeah thats about right, we had very little sleep. i had 2 hours sleep on one of the nights. when we all crashed at kons. but yeah we got paid........ and yeah the 500 miles i put on the car......yeah we got paid........and the 1 meal a day at subways....we got paid...........we got paid......right.........

ps we didnt get paid.

Right I see well this kind of puts everything you all did for us in perspective, I thought everyone would have got paid but you didn't. Well this definatly makes you heroes in my books lol :)

[KONSPIRACY]

As I stated, this is just to get an indication of whether ppl would like to BYOX. The setup, costs n format will be evaluated if its practical to do so n if theres enough demand for it.

[Mazzy]

Right I see well this kind of puts everything you all did for us in perspective, I thought everyone would have got paid but you didn't. Well this definatly makes you heroes in my books lol :)

your damn right we are, everyone one of us. that was the best and worst weekend of my life! it was so much fun tho, but then it was totaly ****. roll on XL part deux.

[kurosaki7]

Could you BYOP : Bring Your Own Ps2 as i would definately pay to pwn Razor at Naruto, as it looks as though i am getting this job so should be able to afford it :)

[KONSPIRACY]

All requests like that can be considered...but we need your feedback before a decision on this can be made :cool:

[Mazzy]

no ps2's !!!! the clues in the address matchbox360.co.uk !! the 360 gives it away, plus the ps pad sucks.

[Loserkid]

hell yea im up for bringing my own :) custom cd's for the win :D :D xD

[Razor]

Could you BYOP : Bring Your Own Ps2 as i would definately pay to pwn Razor at Naruto, as it looks as though i am getting this job so should be able to afford it :)

:rolleyes:

I'd just use one of Naruto's tactics from shippuden to win.
You'll understand in a few weeks ;)

[NeoKubrick]

Would you like to bring your own Xbox or Xbox 360 to MatchBox360 XL LAN events? If so, how much would you be prepared to pay to hire your space?...or would you be worried about it getting damaged or stolen?
So, let me get this straight: you want gamers, who will pay an entry-fee, to risk potential theft or damage of their consoles, with no promise of compensation, to obviate criticism of your lack of consoles to play-on in website, magazine, and gamer reviews, and then ask them to pay for the space their consoles take up?

[KONSPIRACY]

No that is a very distorted way of looking at it Neo.

As we did at the last XL we will provide all tvs, consoles n games (42 Xboxes n 16 Xbox 360 pods at the last one) for everyone to play on at the event. However, in addition, there is a possibility we may be able to offer a BYOX area where gamers can bring their own consoles similar to how PC lan events operate. As such, we are asking for your feedback to ascertain whether or not there is sufficient demand for it.

[quickshot89]

all i can say is, if you bring an xbox, you should be prepared to put it at some risk, thats why they provide you with them, so you dont have to worry about theft, at the end of the day, XL can run fine without it

little off topic bit here, but id hate to be a staff for XL now that im diabetic, 1 meal a day, and i just couldnt do it, id have to be eating mars bars 24/7 just to stay awake :O

[NeoKubrick]

No that is a very distorted way of looking at it Neo.
Is it? Which clause or clauses or all clauses is or are distorted?

[jodahunter]

the fact that your implying that they are forcing people to pay if they want free play, whereas the reality is that they are offering people the option of having a guaranteed xbox to play on whenever they like during the weekend.

[kurosaki7]

Neo Kon made this thread to address just this, whether people would be willing to risk these things or not, he is not saying you 'have' to, he is 'asking' whether people would want to see it at XL, so yes Kon can now see in your opinion you obviously would not want it, but from the feedback obviously some people do, so you can draw your own conclusions from that without attacking the hard work hes trying to get done!

[NeoKubrick]

the fact that your implying that they are forcing people to pay if they want free play, whereas the reality is that they are offering people the option of having a guaranteed xbox to play on whenever they like during the weekend.
Let me simplify it for you: gamers are paying for a service. Now, the providers of this service are asking gamers (you know, the people who have paid to use this service) to provide their own consoles to guarantee that they avail of the service (you know, the service that gamers have paid for, already). Not only that, the providers want to charge the gamers (you know, the people who have paid for the service and have brought their own consoles to avail of said service) for the space their consoles takes up in the venue.

He proposed the option because some people did not avail of the service at the event as often as they would have liked. Therefore, some people will be forced to pay to "guarantee" a service that they have paid for.


Easy once you strip down all the loaded terms and illogical gibberish, eh? ;)

[quickshot89]

Let me simplify it for you: gamers are paying for a service. Now, the providers of this service are asking gamers (you know, the people who have paid to use this service) to provide their own consoles to guarantee that they avail of the service (you know, the service that gamers have paid for, already). Not only that, the providers want to charge the gamers (you know, the people who have paid for the service and have brought their own consoles to avail of said service) for the space their consoles takes up in the venue.


for starters, they do not force you to bring your own xbox, you do this at free will

you pay for venue, and prizes

if you didnt have your xbox there, they could have a one for comps, which makes more money, which in turn creates better prizes etc

remember, it is their free time they give up to run these events, insstead of earning money

you pay for venue, prizes, and costs which you probally dont relsie, such as bandwidth for the servers etc, so please, be quiet

[carocat]

Quickshot, please keep this contructive. Kubrick was only raising a valid point and all feedback is highly appreciated.

[KONSPIRACY]

I see what you're sayin Neo but unfortunately you're missing the point.

The last XL event had loads of freeplay on both Xbox and Xbox 360 consoles, but the unavoidable fact is that whilst the tournaments are in progress then the number of consoles available is limited. The idea behind BYOX is that it offers gamers who wish to use the facility the opportunity to have guaranteed freeplay throughout the weekend...they provide the console, we supply the station (space n tv).

If you have seen the new venue thread then you will see that there are a number of stations we could make available for BYOX. I dont expect you to know or understand the costs involved (& I'm not about to disclose them), but it would cost us money to make these additional stations available for BYOX n we simply cant afford to pay for that ourselves otherwise other areas of the event (ie investment in more consoles n prizes) would suffer.

[NeoKubrick]

I see what you're sayin Neo but unfortunately you're missing the point.

The last XL event had loads of freeplay on both Xbox and Xbox 360 consoles, but the unavoidable fact is that whilst the tournaments are in progress then the number of consoles available is limited. The idea behind BYOX is that it offers gamers who wish to use the facility the opportunity to have guaranteed freeplay throughout the weekend...they provide the console, we supply the station (space n tv).

If you have seen the new venue thread then you will see that there are a number of stations we could make available for BYOX. I dont expect you to know or understand the costs involved (& I'm not about to disclose them), but it would cost us money to make these additional stations available for BYOX n we simply cant afford to pay for that ourselves otherwise other areas of the event (ie investment in more consoles n prizes) would suffer.

What service are gamers paying the entry-fee for?

[KONSPIRACY]

Do I really need to explain the basics behind entry fees?! lol :D

An "entry fee" allows you access to the venue n everything within the venue that is applicable to said entrance fee...in the case of XL, the "door entry fee" covers the cost of providing freeplay consoles, tvs n games that are available, free prize draws n the facilities of the venue. "Tournament entry fees" allow you to enter official XL tournaments where you can win substantial cash prizes on the consoles, tvs n games provided. Now...if there were to be a "BYOX fee" it would cover the cost of providing additional space n TV.

Imagine running an event with no entry fees...for a start you would go bankrupt after one event, the venue would be rammed with ppl demanding everything for free, there would be major security issues with anyone being able to come in off the street having access to lots of expensive equipment. I would love to be able to offer everythin for free at XL...but obviously its not a pheasable option.

[NeoKubrick]

Do I really need to explain the basics behind entry fees?! lol :D

An "entry fee" allows you access to the venue n everything within the venue that is applicable to said entrance fee...in the case of XL, the "door entry fee" covers the cost of providing freeplay consoles, tvs n games that are available, free prize draws n the facilities of the venue. "Tournament entry fees" allow you to enter official XL tournaments where you can win substantial cash prizes on the consoles, tvs n games provided. Now...if there were to be a "BYOX fee" it would cover the cost of providing additional space n TV.

Imagine running an event with no entry fees...for a start you would go bankrupt after one event, the venue would be rammed with ppl demanding everything for free, there would be major security issues with anyone being able to come in off the street having access to lots of expensive equipment. I would love to be able to offer everythin for free at XL...but obviously its not a pheasable option.

Who said anything about abolishing entry-fees? I certainly didn't. But, really in explaining the basics of your entry-fee service, you've demonstrated that a 'BYOX fee' (by the way, who are you quoting there - you coined the initialism, remember? Why would the chief organiser distance himself from such an initialism he coined and concept he's suggesting?) is paying for the exact service that you're paying for with the entry-fee. All three fees pay for a service, but the "BYOX fee" is paying for a service that the consumer paid for, already, when he/she paid the entry-fee.

Really, if you're not providing the service, which you're contractually obliged to provide, you can't ask gamers to provide it themselves, and then ask them to pay for it, again. You can cry the blues all you like about costs, but are you really saying that you're going to charge gamers twice to avail of your service, because you can't guarantee your service to everyone?


In effect, if gamers did bring their own consoles, they would be doing you a favour - not the other way around.

[Backflip]

Erm....I don't think you understand Neo - we do not *need* gamers to bring their own xboxes to run our events properly, we have plenty to run our events just how we want to run them thanks.

We have had some people requesting to bring their own xbox so they can play their own games against their friends (i.e. not just the games that we happen to feature at the event), whenever they want all weekend, hence this thread to find out if there's enough interest. These consoles will not be used for our tournaments or our advertised free-play, and other participants will not be allowed to use the BYOX consoles without explicit permission from the owner.

Providing this service would be an absolute nightmare for us security wise, and not something we really want to do. However, we try our best to focus our events around what the community wants - again, the point of this thread. If there is a large amount of demand for such a service, we will do our best to provide it.

The issue of the "BYOX fee" - we are providing the TV's, the LAN equipment, the space at the venue - hired out to one person for the entire weekend. Unfortunately, we can't eat those costs on our own, and if we offered the service for free we'd have every gamer and his dog turning up with their console, resulting in huge costs for ourselves.

I have a question. Have you ever been to a PC gaming LAN? If you have, I would imagine you would have paid a fee to use the space and power for the weekend, right? I had a look at going to i26 last year and I think it was around

[KONSPIRACY]

I think Steve has pretty much covered everything...the only thing that hasnt really been addressed is the pricing which you seem to be referring to Neo. As this is in its very early discussion stage then we are open to suggestion but it would have to be a fair price to the customer n cover the costs involved. The chances of it actually happening are slim but you never know.

[jodahunter]

tbh i think neo is a complete and utter.... (feel free to edit to something much nice, but for now he is still a ....).

And that the staff here at matchbox are working their arse off to provide something that uk gamers have been dying for and all you can do is ***** about a price you don't HAVE to pay.


Yes, I did edit it, jodahunter. You couldn't expect me not to. ;) - Cat

[carocat]

As for what Kubrick has said and the replies I feel that this is slowly getting out of hand. He was contructively asking questions and to an extent I agree with him.

Everyone, please take into consideration that ANY feedback is good feedback. :)

[KONSPIRACY]

As always, we do take all feedback into consideration...hence this thread being here in the first place! lol :D

TBH I think Neo has got the wrong end of the stick n all his points have been addressed quite clearly :cool:

[kurosaki7]

Cat its the fact he didnt think things through before posting, look at his first post half of his rant is the exact purpose for the thread to answer them. Anyhow back on topic, thankyou Mazzy i do know how to read the fact it is Matchbox360, however the 360 sucks, so i was enquiring into the possibility of bringing a Ps2 or whether insurance etc etc would be messed up and it would not be allowed. I would not want to pay for space for a 360 to sit there doing nothing.

[Mazzy]

that was just a rant. im not saying were banning ps2's . im not the man to ask the question too. and the 360 does not suck.

[NeoKubrick]

Erm....I don't think you understand Neo - we do not *need* gamers to bring their own xboxes to run our events properly, we have plenty to run our events just how we want to run them thanks.

Erm...

MatchBox360 XL will continue to offer competitive tournaments throughout 2007, but with a limited amount of consoles (58 at the last event) freeplay can tend to be limited whilst the tournaments are in progress.

So, you have plenty Xboxes to run the event just how you "want", but Konspiracy states in the first post on this topic that freeplay can "tend to be limited". Which goes back to my point:
Really, if you're not providing the service, which you're contractually obliged to provide, you can't ask gamers to provide it themselves, and then ask them to pay for it, again. You can cry the blues all you like about costs, but are you really saying that you're going to charge gamers twice to avail of your service, because you can't guarantee your service to everyone?



[QUOTE=Backflip;7098]We have had some people requesting to bring their own xbox so they can play their own games against their friends (i.e. not just the games that we happen to feature at the event), whenever they want all weekend, hence this thread to find out if there's enough interest. These consoles will not be used for our tournaments or our advertised free-play, and other participants will not be allowed to use the BYOX consoles without explicit permission from the owner.

The issue of the "BYOX fee" - we are providing the TV's, the LAN equipment, the space at the venue - hired out to one person for the entire weekend. Unfortunately, we can't eat those costs on our own, and if we offered the service for free we'd have every gamer and his dog turning up with their console, resulting in huge costs for ourselves.

I have a question. Have you ever been to a PC gaming LAN? If you have, I would imagine you would have paid a fee to use the space and power for the weekend, right? I had a look at going to i26 last year and I think it was around

[kurosaki7]

Ok bascially, look at the title of the thread, it isnt saying 'we are definately doing, this, this, this and this'. It is trying to get user feedback. Kon had put down some guidelines of what sort of form it would take and some more direct questions would of been better i felt, but you may of just came across in a different and unintended way. This is all about seeing if it is a feasible option and things that could be altered, changed slightly perhaps, so you maybe you could of suggested, not an opinion for everyone saying 'you expect everyone to..' but more so, i feel i would not use this if it was avaialble at XL because of a,b,c. Then maybe Kon could of replied with soemthing a little more constructive thats all.

[Mazzy]

Ok bascially, look at the title of the thread, it isnt saying 'we are definately doing, this, this, this and this'. It is trying to get user feedback. Kon had put down some guidelines of what sort of form it would take and some more direct questions would of been better i felt, but you may of just came across in a different and unintended way. This is all about seeing if it is a feasible option and things that could be altered, changed slightly perhaps, so you maybe you could of suggested, not an opinion for everyone saying 'you expect everyone to..' but more so, i feel i would not use this if it was avaialble at XL because of a,b,c. Then maybe Kon could of replied with soemthing a little more constructive thats all.

well said.

[NeoKubrick]

Ok bascially, look at the title of the thread, it isnt saying 'we are definately doing, this, this, this and this'. It is trying to get user feedback. Kon had put down some guidelines of what sort of form it would take and some more direct questions would of been better i felt, but you may of just came across in a different and unintended way. This is all about seeing if it is a feasible option and things that could be altered, changed slightly perhaps, so you maybe you could of suggested, not an opinion for everyone saying 'you expect everyone to..' but more so, i feel i would not use this if it was avaialble at XL because of a,b,c. Then maybe Kon could of replied with soemthing a little more constructive thats all.
:rolleyes:

Did you read this thread? I asked a simple question, initially. In reply, Konspiracy said "distorted et cetera et cetera", but didn't specify. I asked him to specify. He declined to. Really, he put himself in the position to argue for 'BYOX' at the start and throughout this thread, while I've been pointing out his silly logic, and others'.

[quickshot89]

:rolleyes:

Did you read this thread? I asked a simple question, initially. In reply, Konspiracy said "distorted et cetera et cetera", but didn't specify. I asked him to specify. He declined to. Really, he put himself in the position to argue for 'BYOX' at the start and throughout this thread, while I've been pointing out his silly logic, and others'.

you know, its advice not to annoy admin of sites, or they may strike you down in 1 swift blow

[NeoKubrick]

you know, its advice not to annoy admin of sites, or they may strike you down in 1 swift blow
Are you suggesting that your Adminstrator will ban my account for refuting his silly argument?

[quickshot89]

you really dont understand anyone here do you

(dont bother azure :D i know you want to reply to that)

[carocat]

Can we bring this back on topic, please.

That is to both quickshot and Kubrick.

[NeoKubrick]

you really dont understand anyone here do you

(dont bother azure :D i know you want to reply to that)
You never answered the question. ;)

[Mazzy]

:rolleyes:

Did you read this thread? I asked a simple question, initially. In reply, Konspiracy said "distorted et cetera et cetera", but didn't specify. I asked him to specify. He declined to. Really, he put himself in the position to argue for 'BYOX' at the start and throughout this thread, while I've been pointing out his silly logic, and others'.

KON has put up this, to see what peoples opinions are on BYOX. and to disscus the matter, or as you put "argue". this is a thread for you opinions, and not to ask KON questions. theres no solid plans for BYOX. we might not even do this. as it would require alot of work from staff to "police" the area. which would take away the staff from the events.

so please just discus this.

[FiveOhOne]

Is no-one else finding this highly amusing? It's Quickshot, but with better grammar?

The 'service' as per the entry fee, is precisely that: By paying your entry fee, XL is contractually obliged to give you entry to the venue. No more, no less (the clue is in the name!). Free play on the consoles is an added bonus if you can get it, however with XL's purpose being the competitive events priority over the hardware is obviously going to be given to those. It's not just a weekend for you to mess about with your mates which Neo appears to think it is. People have previously expressed that they would like to bring their own hardware to the venue, so they could exclusively use it for their own purposes for the duration, hence the topic being set up to gauge viability. To be able to provide for those wishing to use their own xboxes, we need to work out any further expenses this would create: Power requirements, extra displays, network infrastructure, and most importantly space. By charging a fee to use this service, XL would effectively be getting solid numbers to work out resource usage and would then be able to determine the most effective way to distribute it. Should XL not charge for this, then what is to stop 300 people turning up and everyone demanding their own station?

Make no mistake, this topic is here because people have asked for it, not because XL thinks it would be a good idea.

[jodahunter]

Is no-one else finding this highly amusing? It's Quickshot, but with better grammar?

roflpops, quite true.

I think he's just trying to drag out the argument until people stop replying :D.

[Azure]

Erm kubrick or whatever your name is...

How do you feel about paying for XBL?

You provide the console, the games te TV the bandwidth and hosting, and they provide you with...

A friends list.

If someone wants to bring barbies horse adventures to XL and beat someone to death at it then we dont mind, we are just probing to see whether or not people who WANT to pay to play 24/7 at a social venue are willing to bring their own xbox - or not.

You pay to get through the door to cover venue fees, you think the NEC is free?

You pay to enter competitions thus contributing to cash prize pools - that is obvious enough.

If you want EXCLUSIVE use of a tv however and whenever you want you PAY for it, it's not a difficult concept to grasp.

The "service" you keep talking about is a social LAN, you get that with the door fee, anything more you want you pay for, if you dont want it then you dont pay for it. Be thankful that XL doesnt just make a blanket charge on the door to absorb these different costs.

This way you can pay door fee, come in and just play with your circle of mates on lan all weekend, or you can pay to get in and pay for the events, or you can pay to get in and pay to do both! Its a choice.

[Retro]

I would pay up to

[BIG D 04]

Are you suggesting that your Adminstrator will ban my account for refuting his silly argument?

Thats it Kubrick, piss everyone off....They don't know you now but they soon will ;) Paddy Power!

[NeoKubrick]

Thats it Kubrick, piss everyone off....They don't know you now but they soon will ;) Paddy Power!
I know, I'm expecting death threats to my PM inbox for offering an argument none can repute with little else than irrelevance. They've tried everything so far with irrelevant arguments, dull-bladed insults, and laughable threats, and, even, attempts to ridicule me for comments I never made. I mean, they think that I haven't seen these cheap-tactics before:

Is no-one else finding this highly amusing? It's Quickshot, but with better grammar?

The 'service' as per the entry fee, is precisely that: By paying your entry fee, XL is contractually obliged to give you entry to the venue. No more, no less (the clue is in the name!). Free play on the consoles is an added bonus if you can get it, however with XL's purpose being the competitive events priority over the hardware is obviously going to be given to those. It's not just a weekend for you to mess about with your mates which Neo appears to think it is.

I mean, are you seriously offering the argument that you are not contractually obliged to offer 'free-play' or any other "bonus" because the entry-fee extends to entry and not implicitly to the service? Well, pertinent to your claim is your advertising of your event. If you advertised the event as an opportunity to enter a venue, and not play computer games, then your point is valid; it isn't. Here:

[quote]"will be able to enjoy freeplay and a free to enter tournament on the year

[BIG D 04]

Erm kubrick or whatever your name is...

That's not nice, just because someone disagrees with you or starts an alternative take on things, don't try to insult him based on his name. That's just rude.

------

Anyway, I think we should get Blaze in here but then again it could things worse especially if you join forces and overwhelm them with your depth of knowledge and your ability to find the smallest thing wrong in a sentence and manipulate it into a whole separate argument. :D

Good Luck Admins and Mods, I sincerely pass Kubrick onto you! Enjoy! :D

[Razor]

So, you are contractually obliged to offer free-play, for the entry-fee service, (opposed to what you claim: "By paying your entry fee, XL is contractually obliged to give you entry to the venue. No more, no less") because you advertised such. You know what false-advertising is, son (here: http://www.asa.org.uk/asa & http://www.oft.gov.uk/default.htm)?

They do offer free play.

The whole idea of BYOX is so that you don't have to take turns on the free play.

[FiveOhOne]

Firstly, I do not work for XL. I attended the last event in a capacity to provide help to the organisation, my apologies if the judicious use of the term 'we' confused you, it's obviously easily done. I allow the XL staff to promote their events through my site as I believe that they are working towards improving the overall situation of our sport in this country, and that this is a good thing. There are many who would agree with me.

I mean, are you seriously offering the argument that you are not contractually obliged to offer 'free-play' or any other "bonus" because the entry-fee extends to entry and not implicitly to the service? Well, pertinent to your claim is your advertising of your event. If you advertised the event as an opportunity to enter a venue, and not play computer games, then your point is valid; it isn't.

Secondly, to answer the above. At what point, anywhere within the XL PR media, does it state free play is guaranteed, for every person, all weekend? Oh, it doesn't does it? Free play was indeed offered over the course of the weekend, so we can tick that little box on the ol' contractual obligations. Other bonuses? Well, two free Gears events, a free FEAR event and various other things including the free prize draws relating to the wrist bands people purchased with the entry fee, so thats another tick box. Your contractual obligations appear to be met son. I'm still slightly bemused as to how you can claim to say we've still not refuted your point?

Anyway, my original point was more of a 'guide' if you will, and you have quite rightly pointed out it was slightly inaccurate, but unfortunately you've still not got a leg to stand on. Shame. I was hoping for something a bit juicier. Disappointing really.

Oh, and I take personal offence at being referred to as 'son'. I am not your spawn. Please do not do it again.

Edit:

Anyway, I think we should get Blaze in here but then again it could things worse especially if you join forces and overwhelm them with your depth of knowledge and your ability to find the smallest thing wrong in a sentence and manipulate it into a whole separate argument. :D

Good Luck Admins and Mods, I sincerely pass Kubrick onto you! Enjoy! :D

Have you been introduced to the tag team of Harris & Luke properly yet? ;)

[Mazzy]

[QUOTE]

"will be able to enjoy freeplay and a free to enter tournament on the year

[Azure]

Here's an idea Kubrick, **** off and run your own LAN, now have a great day :)

XL is pretty simple, you pay about

[quickshot89]

nicly wrote azure, gotta say, you really do impress me sometimes

anyway, Neo, think of XL like a club, you pay to enter, but tehy dont force you to pay for drinks, that is optional, however you can use the dance floor etc, which you dont have to pay, but it may be crowded, so you will have to wait until their is space

now, if you bring you own dancefloor, you can use it anytime you want, but the club looses space, so they must get that space back from payments

i hope that sorta makes things clearer

and im not sure if anyone else knows about this, but im doing a little project for KON that will make his life alot easier at the next XL


im going to bed now, i have to get up early for work

[NeoKubrick]

Firstly, I do not work for XL. I attended the last event in a capacity to provide help to the organisation, my apologies if the judicious use of the term 'we' confused you, it's obviously easily done. I allow the XL staff to promote their events through my site as I believe that they are working towards improving the overall situation of our sport in this country, and that this is a good thing. There are many who would agree with me.
I agree, but I tend to side with the issue, not the man (or group as it were).


Secondly, to answer the above. At what point, anywhere within the XL PR media, does it state free play is guaranteed, for every person, all weekend? Oh, it doesn't does it? Free play was indeed offered over the course of the weekend, so we can tick that little box on the ol' contractual obligations. Other bonuses? Well, two free Gears events, a free FEAR event and various other things including the free prize draws relating to the wrist bands people purchased with the entry fee, so thats another tick box. Your contractual obligations appear to be met son. I'm still slightly bemused as to how you can claim to say we've still not refuted your point?

Now, you're misunderstanding the counter-argument (ironically your own). You stated that the entry-fee was necessarily a toll, not a fee for a service, which quite frankly is silly because it supposes that people are paying this entry-fee to see the wonderful walls inside the venue, and not to see and play computer games. Now, you claim that the contractual obligations appear to met in a hypothetical argument, when the basis for my argument is this comment by Konspiracy:
freeplay can tend to be limited whilst the tournaments are in progress.

Which states that free-play is limited (whilst the...). It's not my claim; it's Konspiracy's. Let me simplify this for you: when a client pays a lawyer for three hours of consultation, the lawyer can't, after the second hour of the consultation, say "Well, I don't have enough energy to...". The lawyer has offered a consultation, and nowhere did he state that the consultation wouldn't last the full three hours the client paid for: that's your argument, in its bare bones - not too much meat eh?


Anyway, my original point was more of a 'guide' if you will, and you have quite rightly pointed out it was slightly inaccurate, but unfortunately you've still not got a leg to stand on. Shame. I was hoping for something a bit juicier. Disappointing really.
First, you claim that "we" have refuted my points, but, second, you state that your point was more of a "guide" (when were guides and points interchangeable eh?), and, third, said "guide" was "slightly" inaccurate. Fourth, though your point, which was more of a "guide" was "slightly" inaccurate, I don't have a leg to stand on.


Oh, and I take personal offence at being referred to as 'son'. I am not your spawn. Please do not do it again.
That's funny (complemented by your report of my post in the Halo 3 thread), because you used "son" to refer to me, too - even to go to such lengths as marking it in bold. I think that "son" is as offensive as the word ''computer", but your plea is accepted. ;)


Azure, you ever heard of the proverb "one rotten apple spoils the barrel"? See if you can spot the rotten apple from the clean apple without biting either:
So, you are contractually obliged to offer free-play, for the entry-fee service, (opposed to what you claim: "By paying your entry fee, XL is contractually obliged to give you entry to the venue. No more, no less") because you advertised such. You know what false-advertising is, son (here: http://www.asa.org.uk/asa & http://www.oft.gov.uk/default.htm)?
So, you are contractually obliged to offer free-play, for the entry-fee service, (opposed to what you claim: "By paying your entry fee, XL is contractually obliged to give you entry to the venue. No more, no less") because you advertised such. You know what false-advertising is, son (here: http://www.asa.org.uk/asa & http://www.oft.gov.uk/default.htm)?

[Azure]

Which states that free-play is limited (whilst the...). It's not my claim; it's Konspiracy's. Let me simplify this for you: when a client pays a lawyer for three hours of consultation, the lawyer can't, after the second hour of the consultation, say "Well, I don't have enough energy to...". The lawyer has offered a consultation, and nowhere did he state that the consultation wouldn't last the full three hours the client paid for: that's your argument, in its bare bones - not too much meat eh?


Oh I get it now, you're a law student with homework so you thought you'd annoy the **** out of everyone because a community driven project has community type limitations. You're cool.

You're right, Kon is at fault in the wording, he shoulld have put in tiny print "Terms and conditions subject to change without notice" so enthusiasts like yourself can wander off to the next insanely dumb thing to argue about.

[BIG D 04]

I think that's harsh, Kubrick means well and for all your insults or ways of demoralising him. He was only trying to show your errors and instead of being able to accept them you had to make a big song and dance out of it.

He's a nice enough lad, there's no need to be a prick.

[Azure]

He was only trying to show your errors and instead of being able to accept them you had to make a big song and dance out of it.

No mate, he was ragging on something a tonne of people put loads of sweat into for the benefit of the gamers.

Whinging on about technical wording, calling the owner of the site his "son" and then linking to a blank web page is "prick" behaviour. If you want to go on about "contractual" bollocks then either

A] Sue

B] Don't turn up

C] Shut up.

[BIG D 04]

OK then this is showing you the nature of his "protest". Say he doesn't say anything, then you get a prick that does turn upto your event and then does sue then your ****ed.

However Kubrick was trying to inform you of your errors so that, that issue/problem could be avoided. It's called looking out for someone, and grow some balls who the hell gets upset about being called "son" to me it's the same as someone calling you "mate" or "brother". Stop being so pathetic.

[carocat]

I think enough has been said in this thread. Calm it down guys.

[Azure]

OK then this is showing you the nature of his "protest". Say he doesn't say anything, then you get a prick that does turn upto your event and then does sue then your ****ed.

They get refunded and told to piss off :) XL would never in a million years get sued over freeplay - Stop being so pathetic. -Quite.

You'd be amazed at the words people get annoyed with, I dont let people call me son IRL I wouldnt like it here either, you have a problem with that moan to Jay as he has issue with it as well.

BYOX?

For me, no the risk of theft/mugging plus "he said she said" makes it too much hassle as it is.

300 odd people left XL happy campers last time, lets just improve before trying new things, especially when it involves finishing late at night in the middle of birmingham.

[carocat]

300 odd people left XL happy campers last time, lets just improve before trying new things, especially when it involves finishing late at night in the middle of birmingham.
I agree completely. There is just so much we need to improve on. Let's use BYOX for later events.

[BIG D 04]

There is merit in his argument though and I actually like the idea behind BYOX. I don't wish to take anything away from the conversation and I wasn't at last event to know how well it went.

If you can guarantee a place and maybe a incentive for people to bring or book their equipment in then all the better. As it means more for other people to enjoy and when people aren't playing in Comps they can play and share on people's Xbox 360's.

So although the benefit is for the consumer/gamer the biggest benefit is for you and I think thats the basic point that Kubrick is making. Although you are providing alot, no one's going to be wanting to wait around while the Comps are being thrashed out and thats where Freeplay benefits you and the gamers. Something worth considering when realising the cost.

Maybe it might be better to knock up the price for people not bringing their Xbox 360 and lowering for people that do. So then people who may want to play on the Consoles are getting charged and the people that are providing the equipment are getting a bit off to enjoy the experience.

[sub]

I love the BYOX idea, hell I mentioned it quite a few times before, but I think we would have to be able to play the comps on our own kit, no way in hell would I bring my 360 down and a TFT monitor only to go and play on a kiosk while my 360 was across the room unguarded.

[quickshot89]

Maybe it might be better to knock up the price for people not bringing their Xbox 360 and lowering for people that do.

no, thats just unfair on those who have to travel along way, as they already pay more to get to XL in the 1st place, so thats just not practical

BYOX... good if theres say a private room etc, not a good idea if its on an open floor, PC gaming works as you can secure your pc easily, xbox's are easy to steal, eg: controllers and cables

[Duke87]

Which states that free-play is limited (whilst the...). It's not my claim; it's Konspiracy's. Let me simplify this for you: when a client pays a lawyer for three hours of consultation, the lawyer can't, after the second hour of the consultation, say "Well, I don't have enough energy to...". The lawyer has offered a consultation, and nowhere did he state that the consultation wouldn't last the full three hours the client paid for: that's your argument, in its bare bones - not too much meat eh?

Where exactly does it say how much free play will be available? You're right, free play was and will be limited during tournaments, but it was provided, just like the advertising said it would be, and just like it will be at the next event, so can we stop with the whole contractual obligation thing.

BYOX, if it happens, will be a completely seperate service for those who want it. It will not add to or detract from the free play that would have been available anyway. It just isn't possible to provide enough xboxes for everybody to have one to themselves all weekend. The only other option with regard to charging is to up the door price, and prebook spaces on a first come first serve basis, would you prefer that? Doesn't seem very fair to me.

Are you suggesting that your Adminstrator will ban my account for refuting his silly argument?

That would imply that we are as close minded as you are.

[sub]

no, thats just unfair on those who have to travel along way, as they already pay more to get to XL in the 1st place, so thats just not practical

BYOX... good if theres say a private room etc, not a good idea if its on an open floor, PC gaming works as you can secure your pc easily, xbox's are easy to steal, eg: controllers and cables

You can secure the 360 with a laptop security cable, on the back is a small slot the same size and shape as the laptop security slots, I don't know if its hooked directly into the chassis like they are on a laptop (stops thieves snapping the cable off and just taking plastic off) but it's an option, as for controllers, well you could take it with you when you go to play, or at least I hope that'll be an option as I hate the 360 pad's default thumbsticks.

[plantpot]

does any1 need a 4th player

[S8 N 1 N J A]

no, im not bringing mine, 58 should be fine..