Home vs Cinema

[Innes]

Urgh, please tell me you didn't watch Transformers on pirate or the internet. It should only be viewed in the beauty that is the cinema!

yeah but it was awsome quality, - telesync, looked beautiful, sounded great with direct audio, can't knock it

[FiveOhOne]

yeah but it was awsome quality, - telesync, looked beautiful, sounded great with direct audio, can't knock it

You using a 40' screen and massive surround sound set up? I reckon I can knock it ;)

[Innes]

lol try a 22" monitor :P with 4 speakers, so its nearly 5.1 :P hahaha

[Gaskin]

How about a cinema screen with even better surround sound.. =/

[Pirate Balloon]

yeah but it was awsome quality, - telesync, looked beautiful, sounded great with direct audio, can't knock iti'm pretty sure the video AND audio quality would be a little more compressed than the original film version

[Renegade]

I'm doing the same - not really bothered about seeing Transformers so I'm not using all my cash at the cinema. Never seen the programme so really don't know what it's all about.

Now The Simpsons next weekend is getting the full treatment - a whole day of Simpsonny goodness followed by the late night showing at my local Vue :D

*edit* Deleted certain comments, I'm not incriminating myself.

[BlueHoopedMoose]

So meh, pirate over paying anyday.

Well you're a ****er then aren't you? And I hope FACT pay you a visit.

[Duke87]

In case you hadn't guessed, Moose works for 'The Man' :p

[Renegade]

Well you're a ****er then aren't you? And I hope FACT pay you a visit.

No - and I would be thankful if you didn't just take one selective part of my post to prove your point because you can't debate. Also, the rest of us have been following the rules of no abuse since they came in, it would set a good example if you did the same.

What I'm saying is that as long as they continue to raise the prices to visit the cinema (up to 8 pound 20 in Cardiff now - thank god I moved), I'm going to be a lot more selective about what I buy. If Transformers is great at home, I will go to see it at the cinema, because the effects will be even more so. If it sucks, then perfect - because I'm not funding them making crappy movies by paying nearly ten quid to go and see it. Don't preach to me either, there isn't a single person on this planet that hasn't stolen something.

What you have is someone here that would NEVER go to see Transformers at the cinema, due to never watching the programme, having absolutely no idea what it's even about (apart from big robots manhandling eachother, which still sounds gay) and not really giving a crap. However, if the film is awesome, I will pay to see it at the cinema. Through checking it out via other means, it increases the chance of me being likely to pay to see it.

As I said - if the prices weren't stupid, chances are I would go and see it as well as The Simpsons. However, with prices as they are, I'm going to pay to see a film that has a high chance of me liking it. I love The Simpsons, always have. What I'm not going to do is play roullette with my hard-earned, and blow it by watching a movie that really doesn't appeal to me.

[Pirate Balloon]

i dunno man, i think shrek 3 would have been worth the 8.20, dude you missed out

[Innes]

well all the cinemas here closed, (it was around 7 to get in when they were open) - so the enarest cinemas are Newcastle and Edingburgh, and ill be damned if i have to take an hour ****ing train journey just to watch a movie, no thanks, ill stick to my downloads..

[Azure]

Cinemas here are over ?7 and have.

Small screens.

Stereo sound.

**** chairs.

Bad food.

Bad Smells.

If I had something awesome near me like a multiplex decent one I wouldn't mind paying for it at all afterall we have all heard the gay advert "Cinema, it's the experience that counts".

Well I agree entirely with the advert, so until someone offers some kind of quality service I will download it - if it is any good it gets bought on DVD. And I have no moral issues with that at all.

[Renegade]

Absolutely, and I appreciate the support. Cinema going is crap compared to what it used to be. Home experience, for me, is equal - if not better - than cinema going. I think the general consensus is 'reduce the price, and people stop stealing from you'.

[BlueHoopedMoose]

People's main argument for illegally downloading films is that the cinema is too expensive. Why then, do you make the film makers, actors, studios, grips, etc pay for that?

The people you should be moaning about are the cinema multiplexes who pass on very little of your money to the people who actually made the film. They sit on their fat butts reaping in your cash and charging you ?4 for popcorn.

Yes, cinemas are over-priced - but by downloading films you're causing more harm to the film business than the cinema retail business.

Renegade, your point about "Ooohh, who hasn't stolen something in life?" is just so weak. Yes, we've all done bad stuff but as humans we have the ability to recognise something is wrong, understand the consequences of your actions and then decide not to do it again.

Azure gets half a cookie for at least making the effort to buy the DVD if it's worthy.

[Pie In The Sky]

The people you should be moaning about are the cinema multiplexes who pass on very little of your money to the people who actually made the film. They sit on their fat butts reaping in your cash and charging you ?4 for popcorn.
Yes, cinemas are over-priced - but by downloading films you're causing more harm to the film business than the cinema retail business.

Isn't that contradicting yourself? Saying that the cinemas don't give any of the money spent to the production team, but then saying that not going to the cinema is harming the production team. Surely by not paying the 7 quid (none of which gets given to the makers, aparantly), then that is 7 quid less that the cinemas make, not the film makers.

:confused:

[Renegade]

Moose, that post is so full of contradictions. The reason I'm not going to the cinema is partly because the film makers see so little benefit from it - so how is me not going hurting them, if me actually going doesn't benefit them? As I've already said - if the movie turns out to be excellent I will go to see it again at the cinema, or as Azure pointed out I will buy the DVD.

There are countless films that I have been wary of seeing, then downloaded and loved, then bought the DVD or seen at the cinema. There have also been countless movies that turned out to be crap and I thank the internet for saving me a shedload of money I would have wasted by seeing them. Truth is, the same people preaching about downloading movies are the ones that get home and think 'what was the song off that advert' and download it. The same ones that see a PC game and think 'wonder if thats any good' and download it.

So what do you want me to do Moose? Sit at home and complain about the standard of service and pricing at multiplexes, whilst not giving them any money? Funny, that's what I've been doing.

Not quite sure what you're arguing for, seeing as you've already said that me visiting the cinema to get fleeced offers no benefit to the film maker. What DOES benefit them however, is me watching their movie and therefore increasing the chance of me buying the DVD, buying the merchandise, etc etc. Surely it's better that we watch the movie at all than not watch it.

[BIG D 04]

I totally agree with Renegade but I use it to download Games, I've saved myself a fortune. Then if a game has been worth it, I've then went and brought it like Crackdown and Forza for instance.

However by not buying straight off the bat and then either not being able to get my money back or even settling for a reduced fee, I feel I have contributed to the Gaming Industry by saying that I'll pay for the Good Games so keep making them but don't come near me with that other ****.

Sorry I distracted it to games but I'm not really a movie buff and felt left out... I do pay for TV Box Sets that I enjoy! Can I have a Cookie, Moose?

And No, I haven't had enough already! :p

[Gaskin]

Cinema huge screen + movie = around 8 quid. HD TV + DVD player + downloaded movie = hundreds /thousands.

[Renegade]

Buying a HDTV is for all my media - PC, Xbox 360, PS3, HDDVD Drive, etc etc. Not to mention the fact that you don't need a HDTV at all. Not to mention the fact that you can have extra people there to share the movie and a laugh with and they don't need to pay to get into your house, whereas every person pays 8 to get into the movie. Plus popcorn. Plus drinks. DVD Player = 15. TV = 50. DVD = free/8p blank DVD. 65 quid, tops, to watch a DVD, and you can watch it as many times as you want. 8 people go to the cinema = 64 quid plus refreshments, and you can watch it once. Yes, it might be a better viewing experience IF you like the movie, but you still have to double the price if you want to watch it again. And if you don't enjoy the movie? Pay again to see a better one. At home, I just put a better one on.

Apples and Oranges Gaskin, because I don't use my HDTV exclusively for watching downloaded movies, whereas I can only use the cinema screen once, for that movie, then I have to pay it again. Using your logic, I can claim that you have to add the cost of the car to get me to the cinema, and the shoes I wear when I go, because I don't need them when I watch a movie at home.

[Azure]

Pray tell me why I would require an HD display to watch a 480i film?

[Renegade]

Exactly. It's a requirement clearly invented to help the 'argument'. Also the fact that TVs can be used for more than watching pirated movies was conveniently cast aside.

[Gaskin]

Whatever, HD or non HD I didn't put it in there to help the argument. It's just if the quality is so "amazing" then I'd expect it to be on a HD... . Still, it costs more. I don't understand, if you think you're not going to like the movie then why watch it? If then you decide you liked it then you're going to think of yourself as a prick for not watching it at the cinema. I only watch films on the internet time to time that aren't at the cinema anymore but yet to be on DVD, or really old and I don't have it on DVD and feel like watching it at that time.

But I'm going to step aside before this turns into a everyone on Gaskin which it's clearly heading for.

[Retro]

Meh i prefer watching a film on a 14" Portable SD TV than at the cinema. I always need to have a piss when In the cinema right near the end of the film because I have very little self control and normally down a litre of coke before hand. At home you can pause, turn up, rewind, FF and turn of when you please.


Plus I want to beat up people who fidget.

[BlueHoopedMoose]

Isn't that contradicting yourself? Saying that the cinemas don't give any of the money spent to the production team, but then saying that not going to the cinema is harming the production team. Surely by not paying the 7 quid (none of which gets given to the makers, aparantly), then that is 7 quid less that the cinemas make, not the film makers.

:confused:
Yes I can see how my post sounded contradictory so let me try to explain further.

I never said that the cinemas don't give any money to the production team et al - just that it was very little. It averages out to be about 8, maybe 9% of each ticket sale that goes to the distributor, who then splits the money accordingly - Mr Film Producer ends up with like 0.5% of 9% of your 7 quid.

By downloading that film you are depriving them of what little money they already get - the studios look at the falling audiences, falling revenue and then cut back on making films. End result is that the film industry loses out.

As I've already said - if the movie turns out to be excellent I will go to see it again at the cinema, or as Azure pointed out I will buy the DVD.
I'm not proclaiming to know the solution to this problem but look at it this way - name me another consumer product you can "Try Before You Buy" (which is effectively what you want) You can't walk into a football ground and say "Hey, not sure if I'm going to like this game or not. Can I watch and if I do like it then I'll chuck you some cash?" Only when you are spending serious amounts of cash on something (like a car) can you expect to try it out first. You pay your money, you take your chances...

How about this one... If you're not sure if you're gonna like the film or not then wait till it's on TV when it's "free". Why do you have to see it *now*?

It may sound like I'm getting on my high horse about it but since working for "The Man" (thanks Ducky!) I've begun to see some real tangible impacts of piracy - 90+ people losing their jobs in Poland because selling DVD's was not economically viable due to rampant piracy.

[Azure]

I would imagine DVDs are not economical there Moosey old chap because everyone sells bootlegged DVDs.

I wouldn't ever buy a bootleg DVD, only genuine. But I will rent the film for free first, that's about it really for me. :)

I only pirate films

When it suits you is what you mean, you are no different.

You are depriving money away from the producers one way or another, even if it is showing regularly on TV.

[NeoKubrick]

http://www.slate.com/id/2124078/

[Azure]

Ninja much?

[NeoKubrick]

http://www.realultimatepower.net/index4.htm

[Chet Webley]

i think a lot of this comes down to age -

i like to own the proper dvd, the real cd, watch the movie at the cinema. i know what i like to watch / listen to / play and i research what i'm thinking about buying before i buy. if i don't like it, most retailers allow me to return / exchange the product. ok, you can't do that at the cinema, but i rarely take a flyer on a cinema trip, and i always but my muncies in tesco's before i get there.

i think most people who are too young to remember the time before teh INt3RwebZ, seem to have a much lazier attitude towards this sort of thing because they can "just download it"

buy the dvd / watch it at the cinema if you really like it? oh, right, i believe, millions wouldn't.....

[Renegade]

I'm not proclaiming to know the solution to this problem but look at it this way - name me another consumer product you can "Try Before You Buy" (which is effectively what you want) You can't walk into a football ground and say "Hey, not sure if I'm going to like this game or not. Can I watch and if I do like it then I'll chuck you some cash?" Only when you are spending serious amounts of cash on something (like a car) can you expect to try it out first. You pay your money, you take your chances...



Games, CDs and DVDs are available to rent. CDs are able to be listened to via iTunes before you purchase them. Games have widely available demos. TVs, Washing Machines, Tumble Driers, Fridges, Freezers, are all able to be taken back if you're not happy. Food from any supermarket can be taken back if 'the customer isnt entirely satisfied with this product'. Want me to continue? There isn't much in this life you can't 'try before you buy' - you're just getting annoyed.



How about this one... If you're not sure if you're gonna like the film or not then wait till it's on TV when it's "free". Why do you have to see it *now*?



Can I guarantee that the movie is going to be on TV? Can I guarantee that by the time that happens I will even remember it? Transformers is out right now, it's in the public eye, and in my mind I have 'what the hell is everyone going on about', so I will check it out now and if it turns out to be good I will go to the cinema and watch it because it's out now. Tell me Moose, if I waited until it was on TV for free, not only would I not buy the DVD as I would record it to DVD, but how could I see it at the cinema? It would be impossible for me to watch it at the cinema, as it would be long gone. So there goes the slim amount of money you're arguing for again.



It may sound like I'm getting on my high horse about it but since working for "The Man" (thanks Ducky!) I've begun to see some real tangible impacts of piracy - 90+ people losing their jobs in Poland because selling DVD's was not economically viable due to rampant piracy.

So you've got one example there, which involves a relatively small amount of people, in Eastern Europe. I could claim that all chocolate is poisonous since Cadbury's recalled due to salmonella - but that would be bull. Besides, nobody here mentioned buying bootleg DVDs. This is about Internet downloading.


I only watch films on the internet time to time that aren't at the cinema anymore but yet to be on DVD, or really old and I don't have it on DVD and feel like watching it at that time.

That's exactly what we have been saying. I only watch films that either aren't out on DVD, or I feel like watching at the time. Just because in your case you are talking about older films doesn't make a blind bit of difference - especially when cinema prices are getting very close to DVD prices. As I said - everybody does it. The only difference is how they sugar-coat their definitions to make themselves feel better.


http://www.slate.com/id/2124078/

Stunning post. May finally silence the moral majority on this site...


buy the dvd / watch it at the cinema if you really like it? oh, right, i believe, millions wouldn't.....

300, Anchorman, Dodgeball, Kill Bill, Hot Fuzz, American Beauty - the correlation? I saw every single one of them via the internet, at least a month before their release. I also saw every single one of them on it's first day of theatrical release.

Children of Men, Memento, The Butterfly Effect, Deja Vu - saw all of them post-release via the internet. Bought them all on DVD, including now owning three different DVD editions of the Butterfly Effect, due to slight differences in the endings.

I too like to own the proper retail edition of things I really like. The thing is, no matter how much research I had done, there was no way I could have known if I would like things like American Beauty, Children of Men or Memento. So instead of shelling out unrecoverable cash, I checked them out first, then decided to hand over my money. There are certain films that you can have absolutely no idea if you will like or not - and by only watching movies that fit the same genre and style as every other film you like, your film watching will be very limited. By doing what some of us do, we can see a film available, old or new, and think 'never seen it, dont know what its about' and download it - which we may love and may completely get us into that genre. We may also hate it, and havn't lost a penny to find out. Point in question is the Zidane movie. I love football, absolutely adore it, and think Zidane is a god. So it seems like the perfect film for me to watch. I wasn't convinced however, and downloaded it. I hated it. I know others that love it, but it's just not my cup of tea. Without watching it, there was no amount of research that could have told me if I would like it or not, it was either 8 quid to find out, or an hour download to find out. So glad it wasn't the 8 quid.

[BlueHoopedMoose]

Games, CDs and DVDs are available to rent. CDs are able to be listened to via iTunes before you purchase them. Games have widely available demos. TVs, Washing Machines, Tumble Driers, Fridges, Freezers, are all able to be taken back if you're not happy. Food from any supermarket can be taken back if 'the customer isnt entirely satisfied with this product'. Want me to continue? There isn't much in this life you can't 'try before you buy' - you're just getting annoyed.
And those are all things you buy that are tangible, you take something home with - watching a film at the cinema is not like that, and has never been marketed like that. I can see we will have to agree to disagree on this one, especially when you resort to comments like "You're just getting annoyed".. I mean, wtf?!?!

Can I guarantee that the movie is going to be on TV? Can I guarantee that by the time that happens I will even remember it? Transformers is out right now, it's in the public eye, and in my mind I have 'what the hell is everyone going on about', so I will check it out now and if it turns out to be good I will go to the cinema and watch it because it's out now. Tell me Moose, if I waited until it was on TV for free, not only would I not buy the DVD as I would record it to DVD, but how could I see it at the cinema? It would be impossible for me to watch it at the cinema, as it would be long gone. So there goes the slim amount of money you're arguing for again.
I'm not telling you that you *must* go to the cinema - all I was doing is responding to your comment that "I illegally download films because the cinema is too expensive".

So you've got one example there, which involves a relatively small amount of people, in Eastern Europe. I could claim that all chocolate is poisonous since Cadbury's recalled due to salmonella - but that would be bull. Besides, nobody here mentioned buying bootleg DVDs. This is about Internet downloading.
I posted my example to show why I feel this is an important subject, and how the oft-cited "Piracy doesn't hurt anyone" is wrong.

As I said - everybody does it. The only difference is how they sugar-coat their definitions to make themselves feel better.
Really? Well I can blow that argument out the water straight away because I don't. So no, not "everyone" does it. They may have done, but now they don't.

Stunning post. May finally silence the moral majority on this site...
Majority? I personally feel very much in the minority!
Whilst it was a good read it's nothing new and I don't see how it adds any weight to your argument. When the film is released in the cinema it is not available on TV or DVD - that is the only point to market adn this is when you were talking about downloading the film.
Now whilst you evangelically say that if you liked it you will then go buy the DVD I would go as far as saying you are in a very small minority - people will not bother to buy the DVD or watch it when it comes round to TV. They've already watched it once via download and won't revisit it again.

Without watching it, there was no amount of research that could have told me if I would like it or not, it was either 8 quid to find out, or an hour download to find out. So glad it wasn't the 8 quid.
Or you could've rented it out - you know, try before you buy. But no you *must* get it for free first...

[Renegade]

My rentals are free, what are you talking about?

As you've said, agree to disagree. You keep going to the cinema, and I'll keep watching them at home.

[nimac]

Yeah......personally I'd recommend a Samsung 50" and an a/v setup like the following.
Tried and Tested by yours truly.

http://www.petertyson.co.uk/ebuttonz/ebz_product_pages/yamaha_av61.shtml

[BlueHoopedMoose]

My rentals are free, what are you talking about?
So you don't pay a single penny to rent DVD's? Blockbuster (or A N Other) give it to you free? Or I am missing the point here?

[sub]

Renegade is saying that downloading movies is the same renting them... which it isn't, because the rental store pays for the movies and gives a certain percentage to the distributors meaning money still gets back to the production company. I could quite easily link loosing my job to pirate movies, used to work for Global DVD (rental store) and the entire company went into liquidation because the money just wasn't coming into the stores, during the closing down sale (our store closed a week before administrators moved in) many folk came in and said that they didn't bother renting because they could pay less down at the local market for a bootleg DVD or could download it for nothing online, very few said that it was because they could buy them from Tesco for a little over a tenner.

I don't like going to the cinema not because it's excessively expensive (I can afford to go every now and again for a big movie like Transformers [haven't seen it yet]) the reason I don't go is that the experience blows. The acoustics are shocking and the picture quality isn't as good as I can get with an upscaled DVD at home which I only have to wait a few months for.

[Chet Webley]

300, Anchorman, Dodgeball, Kill Bill, Hot Fuzz, American Beauty - the correlation? I saw every single one of them via the internet, at least a month before their release. I also saw every single one of them on it's first day of theatrical release.

but out of how many downloaded movies is that?

Besides, nobody here mentioned buying bootleg DVDs. This is about Internet downloading.

but it's all piracy....

everybody does it

i don't. my parents don't. most of the people i work with don't. quite a lot of my friends do, and quite a lot of them don't. just because everbody does it doesn't make it any less of a crime. don't get me wrong, it doesn't bother me either way, just don't try and justify it with the everybody does it bollocks.

which involves a relatively small amount of people, in Eastern Europe.

and why should them being in eastern europe make any difference? is because they're "just foreigners"?

[Duke87]

On an interesting side note, where do people stand on pirating TV shows? Whilst I watch a lot of TV, I couldn't actually tell you the last time I sat infront of one, usually just grab it online and watch it on a computer.

My theory's always been that I could have recorded it myself if I could be arsed.

[quickshot89]

pirating TV isnt really illegal tbh, its broadcast for free, and yes, i know you only pay for the bbc channels, but other channels have the adverts that pay for them. but if i pay the tv lisence, i have no problem watching tv links etc

its a small number of people who ruin everything for us, and they normally have a nice name badge and are fat who want money

[BlueHoopedMoose]

On an interesting side note, where do people stand on pirating TV shows? Whilst I watch a lot of TV, I couldn't actually tell you the last time I sat infront of one, usually just grab it online and watch it on a computer.

My theory's always been that I could have recorded it myself if I could be arsed.

Ooh, now that's a tricky one and I know what my opinion is.

Your argument only holds water if the series you were downloading was readily available here in the UK - for series that are not shown here yet then you can't easily say "I could have recorded it myself if I could be arsed"

[FiveOhOne]

What about TV shows that aren't currently on TV, but have been, but have DVD sets out? :P

[Chet Webley]

i know you only pay for the bbc channels, but other channels have the adverts that pay for them.

that's not strictly true - your tv license allows you to own "broadcast receiving equipment"


and i don't think prating tv is an issue, is it? say you watch the next season of "lost" before it comes over here - the tv company is still going to shell out the same amount of cash for the right to broadcast it, so the owner of the IP hasn't lost out.

[Renegade]

So you don't pay a single penny to rent DVD's? Blockbuster (or A N Other) give it to you free? Or I am missing the point here?

Fitness First have a DVD library bigger than my Blockbusters, and it's 100% free because I'm a member.

[sub]

I download a shed load of TV programs, most of the time I am downloading programs which don't get shown over here (at all or very rarely), NHL games, V8 Supercars (Five show races usually 3 or 4 weeks after they have happened), DTM and other things which I don't have access to. The other programs are things like Lost, 24, Still Game, programs which I record anyway but either want it in HD or I don't want the hassle of converting from a DVR-MS to a xvid file.

[BlueHoopedMoose]

Fitness First have a DVD library bigger than my Blockbusters, and it's 100% free because I'm a member.

OK, fair enough... but then why did you say...

Without watching it, there was no amount of research that could have told me if I would like it or not, it was either 8 quid to find out, or an hour download to find out. So glad it wasn't the 8 quid.

?

[Renegade]

.... because I downloaded Zidane and didn't rent it :confused:

[BlueHoopedMoose]

.... because I downloaded Zidane and didn't rent it :confused:

FFS... I give up. Someone lock this thread before I commit suicide.

[BIG D 04]

FFS... I give up. Someone lock this thread before I commit suicide.

Damm that's a really hard choice for Admin, I mean on the one hand it would end the pointless debate but on the other we lose you...Nearly impossible but I say keep the thread open :p

To be honest I see it all like this, Piracy isn't totally justified and nor is propping up an industry that does every to **** you over, it's somewhere in the middle.

[FiveOhOne]

Fine, I'll lock it.

FWIW I agree with Moosey in principle, just not in practice :/