Mac vs PC [Archive] - Matchbox360

Spindryer

20-03-2007, 03:26 PM

Great thread and even had a link to the legend that is Maddox as well. Im not saying PC's are great or even PC's are better. But for one the iMac adverts along with the i****ing everything else adverts have been pissing me off a treat. Like Maddox said and put so well that he seem to have to be "cool" to own a iProduct and also a iRetard and need everything as simple as possible.

I dont have a bloody ianything and nor will i ever but what i would like is the "i" image to die of a horrible and painful iDeath along with bad actors who can't get real acting job in acting and have to do annoying adverts.

-------------------------

Just to add, i have im my view just raped raped Maddox over email. I picked up on something on his site and have emailed him a virtual **** as it were, I'll keep u posted if i get a reply but i cant see how he can get out of what found. And no im not saying what i picked up on:P

Pirate Balloon

20-03-2007, 04:36 PM

Just to add, i have im my view just raped raped Maddox over email. I picked up on something on his site and have emailed him a virtual **** as it were, I'll keep u posted if i get a reply but i cant see how he can get out of what found. And no im not saying what i picked up on:PHe'll almost definatly just delete them and block you, as he says he does so often in all of his articles. Dont hold your breath.

kurosaki7

20-03-2007, 06:59 PM

Its simple really, you want something that does everything, you need a PC, you want something that can blaze through work and have a much better UI and dont care for all the other crap PC's deal with buy a mac.

neyo

20-03-2007, 08:07 PM

Azure

20-03-2007, 08:16 PM

http://forestier.laurent.free.fr/photogallery/Michael_jackson_bad_1.jpg

zcaliber

20-03-2007, 08:19 PM

I do have things against macs, but I don't hate them- in fact, i work on one. I think the UI is shite, I can get to pretty much anything much faster on my PC. And why all the big zoomey icons in the huge dock permanently taking up 1/5 of your screen? Sure you can make it smaller, but I bet people don't. And what is with the 1 buttoned mouses, what the **** is intuitive about that? The only superior thing I can think of concerning Macs is reliability and security (even though my mac crashes much more than my PC, but i'll take peoples word for it.)

DinnyHoon

20-03-2007, 09:06 PM

I do have things against macs, but I don't hate them- in fact, i work on one. I think the UI is shite, I can get to pretty much anything much faster on my PC

You just contradicted yourself there.

And why all the big zoomey icons in the huge dock permanently taking up 1/5 of your screen? Sure you can make it smaller, but I bet people don't.

Turn off magnification if you want, even hide it. and everyone makes it smaller ;)

And what is with the 1 buttoned mouses, what the **** is intuitive about that?

Absolutely nothing, and it is the worst thing about Macs (you could always use a 2 button mouse, of course - they ship with every desktop Mac now)

The only superior thing I can think of concerning Macs is reliability and security (even though my mac crashes much more than my PC, but i'll take peoples word for it.)

Macs don't crash, they annoyingly lock up after being up too long.

zcaliber

20-03-2007, 09:18 PM

Jesus, when are you bad kids gonna realise that quote fests are completely unnecessary and learn to construct a real paragraph. I didn't contradict myself at all. Lock up/crash, what's the difference? (I don't actually care what the difference is, it's still ****ed)

indiglojo

20-03-2007, 09:19 PM

Wow, you lot are so 'bad' aren't you? The irony of it, appears in that you guys seem to think you're cool on hating this, that and the other. Good for you guys, I'm pleased for you all. :) LOL, jesus christ...

agreed, I've heard far more people feeling/sounding (whatever) superior for hating Macs than I've heard mac owners having a go at PC owners :rolleyes:

mac envy.... it's truly a dreadful thing ;)

oh & the dock.... I personally keep mine hidden, far easier & nicer to look at :p

FiveOhOne

20-03-2007, 10:02 PM

Just to be pedantic, the Mighty Mouse (worst name ever) has 5 buttons...

http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/

Pirate Balloon

20-03-2007, 10:09 PM

Well whatever, you have to admit that Apple have the worst marketing campaign ever. I mean, it's always all "Whoa, look how smooth we are, where as PC's are BORING. I mean, c'mon, we can do all kinds of things such as... (reel off list of generic tasks)". How can you go with a company that simply slags off it's competitors??

And having Mitchell and Webb in your ads doesnt work for me. I'm a huge fan of Peep Show so the adverts dont really create the effect they're supposed to, haha.

I mean, the vast majority of people use thier computer for very little stuff that needs this special ****. I mean, you can do pretty much everyhting on a PC that you can do on a Mac right?

quickshot89

20-03-2007, 10:28 PM

FiveOhOne

20-03-2007, 10:33 PM

Depends what OS said PC is running. Linux yes, Windaz no. Windows is the black sheep when it comes to OSs, pretty much everything else is either built on, or a variant of Unix and share the same basic principles: file systems, base processes etc etc.. When you start getting into the lower levels, the proper nuts and bolts stuff, thats where OS X shines for me.

The Missus likes the shiny things, like iLife. Ironically, she refuses to use anything other than MS's Entourage for her mail/calendar stuff, ignoring iCal & Mail...

Apple advertising is weak, but you've got to remember they're target audience are youngish (18+) folks with a lot of disposable income. Apple hardware is anything but cheap.

neyo

20-03-2007, 11:16 PM

Just to be pedantic, the Mighty Mouse (worst name ever) has 5 buttons...

http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/

I use a Mighty Mouse myself, but i only use one button and the scroll-ball. I hear PC user after PC user moan about the 'one button crap' for Mac's, yet I wonder if they conside maybe Mac OS X and Windows XP are designed differently? I don't want to have to think whether I need to right click, left click, why should I? You could argue that it's hardly worth worrying about, but that's probably because you've used Windows all your life. Windows is contextual menu heaven, it's the only way to achieve a massive amount of operations but in Mac OS X, it isn't. When you've the best part of a 100 keys on a keyboard, why should you need 2-10 more buttons on a mouse, why make things more complicated? This stands true especially to kids and older folks learning on a computer, where it's excruciating to see them clicking the wrong button, or sitting blankly at the screen whilst they consider what button might be the right one. It's thought processes like these that make me appreciate Apple's software in general and this could not be better demonstrated with the seamless connectivity between iTunes and iPod. I'm no evangilist, but simplicity, where-ever possible should be commended in a sector where technology is scary, to many.

MrsRain501 - Why would you use Entourage? It's a mess, it's like... Outlook!

I mean, you can do pretty much everyhting on a PC that you can do on a Mac right?

More than you can on a Mac, if you were looking at games, and/or counting applications on a platform basis.

DinnyHoon

21-03-2007, 01:00 AM

Entourage is horrible, I don't know why your missus would use it 501 :eek:

neyo: I understand what you're saying about the one-button mouse, but I've been using a Mac for six months now, and I can't live without a second button (granted, I definitely don't need 10)

neyo

21-03-2007, 01:27 AM

What do you use the second button for? I used to use Windows exclusively until 2000, now I use Mac's exclusively since Mac OS X was conceived, and it's strange for me now, to have to think about what button I need to do an action. Maybe I am stupid?! ;)

Do we have Vista users in the house? I'd love to hear people's thoughts about it, especially given the fact I got to use it last week for the first time...

zcaliber

21-03-2007, 01:47 AM

The second button saves time, it's a fact. And it's obviously been addressed with the "mighty mouse", so, end of that discussion. As for simplicity, it might be good for simple people (take that harshly if you want), but i personally prefer having more options available to me.
Whilst i've not fully explored and attempted to customize my mac, It does feel very limited. For example, I can't take off acceleration on my mouse, even after installing the proper logitech software. (if someone can prove me wrong on this please do, cause it's pissing me off)
I have a question, what can Macs do that PC's can't? (It's a real question, cos I don't know the answer.)

FiveOhOne

21-03-2007, 08:11 AM

I have a question, what can Macs do that PC's can't? (It's a real question, cos I don't know the answer.)

Run Mac OS X :p

I've got Tiger, XP & Vista installed on my MacBook, and all work flawlessly. Being able to switch between XP & OS X and the press of a key makes life much easier... I've got Windows when i need to use stuff like Remedy & Notes Administrator that I need to use for work, and do everything else in OS X :D

DayC

21-03-2007, 08:33 AM

Do we have Vista users in the house? I'd love to hear people's thoughts about it, especially given the fact I got to use it last week for the first time...

Yep it's horrible at the moment I rolled back to XP because whilst trying to create an After Effects tutorial on Camtasia Studio Vista decided to split the screen in half swap the halfs round then mirror them, it then decided disable my ipod good bye vista.

zcaliber

21-03-2007, 10:52 AM

Didn't know you could use Windows on a Mac, that's good I suppose

Renegade

21-03-2007, 10:58 AM

So what Neyo has basically explained is - Macs for old people and young children. PCs for the rest.

Cool with me.

neyo

21-03-2007, 11:29 AM

Definitely better for those people, but more-over, it's for people who don't care to want to babysit their machine, probably.

You don't worry about:

Virii
Adware
Defragging
Drivers
Crashing/Uptime

Some people enjoy maintaining their computer, some people like to build them and take pictures of the insides of them, as long as their happy. Me? I just get up, use my computer, close the lid and never worry about really any of it really, including what mouse button to use! :P

zcaliber

21-03-2007, 11:52 AM

You say all this but I haven't had a single problem with my PC in over a year, no crashes or anything. I don't mind installing drivers, at the end of the day if you want the latest ones you want to install them yourself really. No need to defrag seems to be about the only real benefit. (Virii have never been a problem for me) So is it worth paying what, twice as much for a similar specced system ?

DinnyHoon

21-03-2007, 12:39 PM

I think so. Most people buy Macs for the OS, which is the most efficient OS ever created. I run a 1.83gHz Core Duo on just 512MB of RAM, and every program flies. It's also a more sophisticated and advanced operating system - should you choose to use it as such. And of course, Macs are PCs too, so you can run Windows if you absolutely have to.

neyo

21-03-2007, 07:00 PM

I see what you're saying, but just because they've not effected you yet, doesn't mean they aren't a concern. You still have to have you wits about you when you open local mail, you still have to update virus definitions and maybe pay a subscription to a company for that etc etc. If you're happy, that is fair enough, it would seem possibly like Mac users are getting screwed in that case.

You say all this but I haven't had a single problem with my PC in over a year, no crashes or anything. I don't mind installing drivers, at the end of the day if you want the latest ones you want to install them yourself really. No need to defrag seems to be about the only real benefit. (Virii have never been a problem for me) So is it worth paying what, twice as much for a similar specced system ?

Azure

21-03-2007, 07:37 PM

I never understand the point in arguing against either one.

They are at opposite ends because of the nature of them.

You can plug anything and everything into a PC and get it to run, it has to accept probably millions of different applications on a pretty much open system. You can't ever have the advantage of that without the "Bsod, crashs lock ups and Virii".

Macs can run "forever without fault" because it strictly limits what can and cannot run on them.

If people have a use for Macs for work or whatever then more power to them, I just find it lamentable when people ask for advice on upgrading an OLD PC or whatever to have someone come along and dump the equivalent of "Duuuuuude, seriously, just get a Mac it is > PC".

This entire thread is D?j? vu as well it has all been done before.

Want reliability on a workstation? Get a Mac.

Want to do anything else? Get a PC.

I see what you're saying, but just because they've not effected you yet, doesn't mean they aren't a concern.

I agree 100%, I am always on the look out about my town for packs of man eating Hyenas, never know when they might strike :D

[For the record I am virii free without any continual AV monitoring software and BSOD free for at least 2 years, even having gone through building a new PC for the first time.]

Spindryer

21-03-2007, 08:32 PM

How are Mac's with running top end games?

neyo

21-03-2007, 10:15 PM

With whatever games are avaliable, great I assume? My brother plays WoW alot, as well as some iteration of The Sims and Simcity and they work great for him. Myself, well i've never played a game on a Mac, i've grown past the days of spending hours squinting, screaming and sweating infront of a computer monitor for the sake of gaming. :D

Azure, we both know that's a weak analogy, I am fairly certain Virii inside the domain of Windows, are far more rife than Hyena's in, Brighton! :P

DinnyHoon

22-03-2007, 12:16 AM

How are Mac's with running top end games?

You have to spend a lot of money to get a Mac that can run the fastest games.

The 24" iMac comes with 1GB of RAM and a Geforce 7300, but that costs 1300 quid.

Or, you could buy a Mac Pro with 2GB of RAM and a Geforce 8800, for a couple of grand.

Spindryer

22-03-2007, 09:35 AM

So you saying that Macs are best not used as a Gaming unit but rather word processing etc....

Liam

22-03-2007, 09:45 AM

Basically, yeah...

Spindryer

22-03-2007, 09:53 AM

Well then i will just stick with my MP3 player and my PC and keep my options open with also keeping in pocket at the same time thank you.

And Liam that sig you have atm is a bit basic isn't it ? Ask your friend Razor if he could knock you something up ;)

neyo

22-03-2007, 11:24 AM

Well, you could say that. But the fact is, you see Apple computers dotted around the biggest creative producers in the world, through music, movies and design, so it'd be somewhat harsh to consider a Mac just a word processor?! Why do you think that those people just Apple machines, running Mac OS X to produce such costly work? The biggest selling point to new Mac's, are the fact you can have the luxury of Mac OS X and all that it entails, and if you want to play a game, you can just load Windows XP or Vista. The system we have here, is a dual 2.66GHz dual-core Xeon with 1.5Gb RAM and an ATi Radeon XT1900 (512MB). You think it's 'just for word processing'?

Pirate Balloon

22-03-2007, 11:26 AM

So you saying that Macs are best not used as a Gaming unit but rather word processing etc....Well according to the Apple advert, word processing is a boring task for PC users :rolleyes:

Spindryer

22-03-2007, 11:32 AM

Neyo to answer your question: yes as that bench mark is nothing special.

Morgan90

22-03-2007, 11:48 AM

Well according to the Apple advert, word processing is a boring task for PC users :rolleyes:

Word processing boring? What a lie, theres so much to do: type, print, Zoooooooom!

Spindryer

22-03-2007, 12:48 PM

I saw these and i just had to post them:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_kJPxhOd8U
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Krgk4Mlps
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3ZTCZW_cRw

neyo

22-03-2007, 06:31 PM

What was your question? I don't remember mentioning a 'benchmark'? :confused:

Neyo to answer your question: yes as that bench mark is nothing special.

quickshot89

22-03-2007, 06:34 PM

put it this way :

to play games : pc
to do most things other than gaming : mac

end of topic

Spindryer

22-03-2007, 09:14 PM

Here you go Neyo as u missed it:

How are Mac's with running top end games?

FiveOhOne

22-03-2007, 09:25 PM

Neyo to answer your question: yes as that bench mark is nothing special.

Here you go Neyo as u missed it:
How are Mac's with running top end games?

But surely that's your question, not Steve's?

kurosaki7

22-03-2007, 09:33 PM

Neyo said macs can run games, after spin asked if they could, neyo posted what will be a ridiculously expensive mac set-up. Basically saying on that spec, a mac could run games, spin then answered the question of 'benchmark' by stating his original question which releated to if the benchmark of a mac was good enough to run games. Which at the end of the day it is but comes at a big hit to the bank balance whereas a PC will give you the same all round result at half the price with a big improvement on games but drawbacks on day to day usage over the mac.

well thats the way i saw it anyway :P

Spindryer

22-03-2007, 09:41 PM

What was your question? I don't remember mentioning a 'benchmark'? :confused:

That was what i was refering too.

DinnyHoon

22-03-2007, 10:35 PM

Laughing at Macs because they can't play games is like a motorcycle owner laughing at cars because they can't pull a wheelie. The stability of the Mac OS is what makes it the professional's choice. Also, Apple make all the best studio software.

quickshot89

22-03-2007, 10:47 PM

DinnyHoon

22-03-2007, 10:48 PM

yes, and how many need the pro software?

thats right, the majority dont

That's why 90% of PCs have Windows. Well, that and Gates' talent as a businessman.

FiveOhOne

23-03-2007, 12:30 AM

Depends what you mean by Pro though quicky:

http://www.parallels.com/en/products/desktop/
http://macromates.com/
http://www.lachoseinteractive.net/en/community/subversion/svnx/features/
http://cocoamysql.sourceforge.net/

Audio, Visual, Application Development (Ask Dave about xCode..), Web Development. You can do all these on a PC, Macs just do it better IMO.

neyo

23-03-2007, 01:13 AM

I can't imagine that system is overly expensive in comparison to a Dell system, or something similar. I think it was about ?1800, but it plays the best games in Windows XP... :P I think the problem you chaps have, is you want to pimp out computers with pink CPU fans and lights and see-through panels, and Apple don't offer anything you guys. If that's your thing, yes, well you won't get a suitable computer from Apple, but to argue Mac's can't play games is rediculous given the fact all new Mac's ship with the ability to run both Windows and Mac OS X.

I still have no idea what the hell Spin is going on about though, I don't know where the term 'benchmark' arose from, and to my knowledge I didn't expect an answer to a question, neither... Oh well.

Neyo said macs can run games, after spin asked if they could, neyo posted what will be a ridiculously expensive mac set-up. Basically saying on that spec, a mac could run games, spin then answered the question of 'benchmark' by stating his original question which releated to if the benchmark of a mac was good enough to run games. Which at the end of the day it is but comes at a big hit to the bank balance whereas a PC will give you the same all round result at half the price with a big improvement on games but drawbacks on day to day usage over the mac.

well thats the way i saw it anyway :P

BIG D 04

23-03-2007, 01:39 AM

Without Microsoft = Everyone has a Macintosh = Macs get games = **** Microsoft :P

This is retarded. Whether your joking or not the general Mac vs PC which to a degree Apple have pushed to the mainstream is pointless.

As a Consumer you need to decide what is best for you, the two Operating Systems both have Pro's and Cons and you can add these up all day and still get the two same people arguing over what's best.

People need to realise that One Size doesn't fit all, some people will find using a Mac more Productive, Some People will enjoy Windows more because of the Games Support it has, Some people will enjoy the Design from the Software upto the Hardware where as others will enjoy the Hardware Customisation that a Windows PC can offer.

In the end you need to balance everything up and see what is right for you, one is no better than the other. One just suits one kind of individual whereas the other doesn't. This is the same with everything you see around us from Consoles to Life in general theres no one rule that you can use to grasp everyone into buying or using the same item.

So these PC vs Mac arguments are retarded just decide what is best for you based on Hardware, Software, Industrial Design, Customisation, etc and pick.

Azure

23-03-2007, 10:22 AM

Neyo mate its fairly simple.

Spindryer: Can macs run games?

Neyo, yes look at speccy

Spindryer, That spec is fairly **** [benchmark].

Neyo- you wot?

I will never have anything pink or gay in my PC, just black, quiet and does what it's told. Just how I like my women.

Innes

23-03-2007, 11:37 AM

haha nice remark at the end azure

zcaliber

23-03-2007, 11:44 AM

Mac's are undoubtedly a rip off, which just makes it shitter in my opinion, and this is partly the source of my slight resentment towards the things. Nobody really cares about whether your power cable fits flush against the back of your pc, until you're paying twice as much for it. Suddenly it becomes really amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBp9Xe8xfus
And yes this guy is serious.

Innes

23-03-2007, 12:17 PM

tbh this is THE most pointless thread in any forum, and every forum i've been on has some sort of Mac vs pc thread - all in all it comes down to what you prefer NOT about if you can "liberate" people and get them to belive you over someone else....

Macs are macs
Pc's are Pc's

i dont see the problem with them.

Innes

Azure

23-03-2007, 01:11 PM

I agree, I dont want to bother Mac users, I just don't want them bothering me :D

It is the "Oh you poor PC user you need liberating" that gets my goat, nothing else.

Spindryer

23-03-2007, 03:29 PM

Its the crappy adverts i hate and the way the aim them at retards who would even struggle to turn on a PC. Also out of interest how come if the Mac's OS is so good you need to install M$ windows on it in the first place....Strange.

EDIT:

Laughing at Macs because they can't play games is like a motorcycle owner laughing at cars because they can't pull a wheelie.

Your right and when i was riding everyday to and from work on my Bike i did laugh at the suckers who were sat in the little tin cans in a cue of traffic just because they didn't have the balls to buy a bike over a car. Because somewhere in there meaningless life they were told to drive rather than ride. It was THIER choice not mine that they bought a car and so they couldn't do mean ass wheelies.

Bikes Cost less>cheaper to run>Faster>smaller>you never wait in a cue again. So yes your right Dinny if you compare people who have PC's as bike riders and people who have Mac's are Car drives then sure a brave assumptions but i can see your logic.

zcaliber

23-03-2007, 03:39 PM

Spin I want to see how you "owned" Maddox

Spindryer

23-03-2007, 03:46 PM

i have a copy of the email i sent out somewhere, but see if you can spot the same mistake on his site that i did first.

Azure

23-03-2007, 06:39 PM

Been out on mine today with the woman screaming on the bike, cold to the bone, terrorising pedestrians and filtering just as I know how to ;) Got to get another one James.

BIG D 04

23-03-2007, 07:37 PM

Its the crappy adverts i hate and the way the aim them at retards who would even struggle to turn on a PC. Also out of interest how come if the Mac's OS is so good you need to install M$ windows on it in the first place....Strange.

The reason behind that is that, Microsoft at least for the Home and Gaming Market severly out weight the Mac Market so they include it so you then have a Larger Product Base so people can Run any Windows Apps or Games that haven't been optimised/coied/designed etc to run on Mac's.

I personally prefer the OSX OS but like everything I'm open to change that's why I still have a Windows PC and trying to sort out my Laptop with Linux.

Alot of people are stupid in my view, why dedicate yourself to one product and put up with the possible flaws as there is always alternatives. Hell there is even Mods/Hacks that you can run OSX 10.4.9 Tiger on a Standard Intel PC.

So in the end if you will have to pick up what you need to suit your needs not the needs of your neighbour or friend.

You can't compare the two in my view as they have been both designed differently to fulfil different needs and they are doing it, the only difference now is that to some people have a Mac actually has become an alternative and a real one.

Daniel 89

23-03-2007, 09:53 PM

I think Macs are better I've had mine for 2 years and it hasn't crashed once. I've lost count how many times my PC has crashed. :D

Spindryer

25-03-2007, 03:52 PM

Good for you Daniel your Mac hasn't crashed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEAGmBRC1dc)for a whole 2 years ? Well apart from MSN which has crashed a least a dozen times in 2 years i haven?t had a problem with my PC crashing either.

It seems that neither "side" can be bothered to come to more of a conclusion that "its personally choice" well that?s a bit weak in my eyes, as these 2 computes aren?t exactly matched round for round. Take the best PC you could buy then put it up against the best MAC you could buy and we will see though stats and figers who wins.

But of course none of us wont ever earn that sort of money (apart from neyo) so that would be pointless, what Macs do (it seems) is to be very simple to use and have less breakdowns / crashes due to software being made just for the Mac and the high level of security on board a Mac. So a Mac is simple to use and more safe that a PC. Well even though i would contest safer and more secure than a PC as it depends on the retard who owns the PC and what software he uses but still lets just say the person in question is a complete retard and has bought a bog standard dell, and doesn?t add anything to it.

Anyway, so yes from the box a Mac is safer and more reliable than a out of the box PC. Now that?s all well and good if you have limited or zero knowledge of how to use a computer (mums and dads) but this sort of thing could hold u back to further your computer. For example the reason most PC's can be classed as more unstable is because of all the countless software that is on offer for the PC. Software can clash and this of course is were the Mac would be better as you limited to what u can run. Although i cant find (tbh cant be assed) to find the ratio out it was something like over 80% of all computers are PC's which is why there is more hardware, more software and more games for the PC than there is for Mac. That would make it very easy to understand that = more options.

Now what about the software you do get with Macs, things that have an i in front of them. iMovies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-JdC04vBik) for example... That is a free program right like Windows Movie maker would be another reason to spend the extra money on a Mac for right ?

Games........... Well i don?t even need to say anything more than "BF2 or Simms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7y2i10jSlI&NR)"

Now its been said already by the Mac fans that you can indeed load Windows on to a Mac and use windows - Great i say but is this something everyone will have to do to get any worthwhile use out of there Mac? IS this something ppl will have to buy extra as well. To be honest the only people who would go out and buy Windows to load into their Mac are not the sort of people who use the Mac for general use. People who basically need windows on their Mac because of work or hobbies that means they cant do all there work on Macs OS. Well with all the money they have spent on a decent Mac (a not so slow one) then why didn?t they just buy/build a kick ass PC? and then they could not only saved a shed load of money but also had the added bonus of a massive window of software and hardware available to them to use that they couldn?t of used with a Mac.

Of course Macs will always win on the cool factor wont they, i mean the adverts even have a well known actor in them and they really show a true comparison (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrpS9m2VF1c)to the PC which i love. But its like the popular kid a school i never really liked him.

If there?s any mums or dads reading this you should ignore all i have said as YOU do WANT a Mac as mums and dads a ****ing useless with computers and u need all the help u can get, a Mac IS the answer for u as it will stand up to the test of your dumbness.

Bring it on, "i can dance all day."

quickshot89

25-03-2007, 03:59 PM

then why didn?t they just buy/build a kick ass PC? and then they could not only saved a shed load of money but also had the added bonus of a massive window of software and hardware available to them to use that they couldn?t of used with a Mac.

hence why im building a new pc, that, and ive always wanted to build 1 :rolleyes:

Spindryer

25-03-2007, 04:06 PM

I have just checked out some prices, I could build (without monitor as i have it already :) ) a kick ass PC that will run any game out at the moment at full spec for 500 pounds, when u compare that to the price list for iMacs you can see the term RIP OFF (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=C1211F78&nclm=iMac) has a whole new meaning. Especially when u look at what spec your getting for your money :O

carocat

25-03-2007, 04:07 PM

Maybe not everyone wants to have a gaming PC?

Spindryer

25-03-2007, 04:20 PM

quickshot89

25-03-2007, 04:40 PM

Maybe not everyone wants to have a gaming PC?

if thats the case you can build a pc for less than 400 with a new screen

sub

25-03-2007, 05:10 PM

if thats the case you can build a pc for less than 400 with a new screen

But it'll be a relatively crap computer.

Thats what really bugs me about the majority of the PC fanboys, they seem to think that just because you don't play games that a ?400 computer will be wonderful, they are crap. Cheap components which have a short lifespan on them, particularly when pushed for any length of time, and the end support is dire if something goes bang, which it will invariably do at some point. To get a decent PC, even a self-build, which will be stable, use good quality components and be capable of running serious programs for its entire life you can easily spend ?700-800 after buying a copy of XP....
whereas you can buy a Mac for much the same money, or less if you are willing to sacrifice a bit of speed and take a Mac Mini at ?400 which will kick a ?400 PC all over the room. You get good quality components which will last a long time, there is a reason you see G3's sitting on eBay going for good money, they are still good machines for day to day use, hell I use a 400mHz G3 on a fairly regular basis for serious Photoshop work and while it's not hugely fast it is very doable, can you say the same about a 5 year old PC?

And once you move to top end of the scale in the professional end of the market the Mac Pro is hugely popular for a few simple reasons: it's bloody well priced when compared to [u]workstations[/b], it's very well made, and seriously fast.

DinnyHoon

25-03-2007, 05:56 PM

Correct....... But when we are using the general PC vs Mac and you want to find a winner then u you look at every part of the computer. And a high end graphics card + a fast processer would have other uses than just running games.

It can? Here, I thought all the high-end hardcore software went straight to Mac? *shrugs*

And yes, I do believe it's purely a case of choice. However, I find myself obliged to fight for Mac (maybe it's something in the water)

zcaliber

25-03-2007, 06:16 PM

Not that I care enough to read everything posted in here but at a skim of sub's post, i feel i must say, if you want an up to date PC, or mac, it gets noticably out of date every half year or so, so what's the difference if stuff starts blowing up later, not that they do- but then what would I know we only have what, 6+ working PC's in the house, and 3 Macs.

I use a 400mHz G3 on a fairly regular basis for serious Photoshop work and while it's not hugely fast it is very doable, can you say the same about a 5 year old PC?

I have a G4 upgraded with the best memory/processor available, and it is disgustingly slow when running PS/InDesign compared to this old emachines (AMD athlon 2700, 256mb ram).

sub

25-03-2007, 07:42 PM

if you want an up to date PC, or mac, it gets noticably out of date every half year or so

It's not as regular on a Mac as it is on a PC, the Macs tend to get refreshed every 6-12 months with a minor update, usually a few mHz on the clock speed, whereas the PC market implodes every 3-6 months and when it does things progress rapidly from 3Ghz to 4 which is a sizable jump, so that PC bought 6 months ago is farther from the cutting edge compared to the 6 month old Mac. And the PC of 2 years ago is miles from the cutting edge where as the majority of Macs (the mini is a bit of an exception) are still fairly close, sure its a few mHz slower but the difference is minimal and performance difference isn't always clear.

Why your G4 is slower than an AMD 2700 I don't know, if you are running the exact same version of PS and InDesign things should be fairly close, although InDesign CS is a big performance hog CS2 runs quite well on G4s. Which G4 is it you have?

Spindryer

25-03-2007, 07:47 PM

Jesus 400 pounds would still be enough to buy a fast PC, mine cost me around 500 and i had to pay through the noise for putting this together.

And once you move to top end of the scale in the professional end of the market the Mac Pro is hugely popular for a few simple reasons: it's bloody well priced when compared to [u]workstations[/b], it's very well made, and seriously fast.

Mac Pro is well priced........you sure (http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore?family=MacPro)?? Because for that money on a PC you wouldn't get a "seriously fast" PC....Oh no, you would get a super computer which is stupidly fast!!! with enough money left over to buy a set of 3 Monitors and a pack of Red Bull to give you enough energy to keep up with the pace.

Also Sub im glad you brought up the life-span issue because as zCaliber said the computing world is ever evolving and faster and more powerful components are coming out every 6months almost. So if you wanted to have the "latest" Graphics Card then u would simple replace it with no issues and easily available drivers to install it, rather than be limited to what u can and cant replace with a Mac.

I don’t get into many debate on here, in fact i cheat i only get involved when i truly believe what im saying is correct. And i believe when you spend all that money on a iMac or worse a Mac Pro you are paying for fashion label more than the money being spent on the product.

sub

25-03-2007, 08:02 PM

Mac Pro is well priced........you sure (http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore?family=MacPro)?? Because for that money on a PC you wouldn't get a "seriously fast" PC....Oh no, you would get a super computer which is stupidly fast!!! with enough money left over to buy a set of 3 Monitors and a pack of Red Bull to give you enough energy to keep up with the pace.

Yeah the Mac Pro is very well priced, go off to Dell and price up a 2x Dual Core workstation, prices are very similar in most cases and in some situations Dell are significantly more expensive to get a machine at the same specs.

Also Sub im glad you brought up the life-span issue because as zCaliber said the computing world is ever evolving and faster and more powerful components are coming out every 6months almost. So if you wanted to have the "latest" Graphics Card then u would simple replace it with no issues and easily available drivers to install it, rather than be limited to what u can and cant replace with a Mac.

It's not that simple though, you have to consider compatibility, not just "will this card slot into the motherboard", you also need to consider wether or not you need a new power supply for that honking great big graphics card.

And of course there is the reason you would want to upgrade your graphics card.... you play games... well bugger me the Mac isn't really the place to go for your gaming needs.

Oh and you can replace the graphics card in a Mac, the Mac Pro has a PCI-E slot just like a PC.

Spindryer

25-03-2007, 08:40 PM

Oh and you can replace the graphics card in a Mac, the Mac Pro has a PCI-E slot just like a PC.

It's not that simple though, you have to consider compatibility

Your right , with Macs you have that added worry, And i wouldn't buy Dell for the very same reason as you said your self there not a grand cheaper that would it would cost to buy at the local PC shop.

I'll tell you what, im feeling extra nice today I'll give u a bit of direction for your defence of the iMac and Mac. As we have established the PC is cheaper and not only does Games to the highest standard but also everything else a computer should be able to do. Try plugging what a Mac can do. Talk about its programs with "i's" in front of them , PC's don't have them so try plugging them.

Also take the angle that everyone has a PC and you want to make a statement to the world that your happy and proud and shop at GAP (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/Gay+And+Proud), and that's why you don't want a PC but u want a iMac as their different.

sub

25-03-2007, 11:21 PM

Try plugging what a Mac can do. Talk about its programs with "i's" in front of them , PC's don't have them so try plugging them.

The world of the Mac doesn't revolve around iLife, despite what many people say, it revolves around a few pieces of the most well crafted programs ever made.

TextMate, Delicious Library, Mail.app, xPad, NewsFire, Fetch, Adium, oh and all those programs which are industry standards like Final Cut Pro, Soundtrack Pro, QuakXpress (although InDesign is taking over slowly)[/quote]

Also take the angle that everyone has a PC and you want to make a statement to the world that your happy and proud and shop at GAP (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/Gay+And+Proud), and that's why you don't want a PC but u want a iMac as their different.

I don't want a Mac because it's different, it's because it works.

"we need to know that we can trust the machines to handle whatever we throw at them without crumbling"
Apple.com/Pro/Profiles/Southpark (http://www.apple.com/pro/profiles/southpark/)

There is a damn good reason why so many professionals use Macs, its the same reason so many servers run *nix because it just works. There are too many, other, more important things to be dealing with instead of farting around with drivers, defragging your machine so it stays reasonably fast and stable, worrying if that attachment for the client has got a virus on it and then swearing repeatedly at the slow down when you go and buy that virus scanner just to be on the safe side.

For sure there is a place for PCs, as much as there is a place for Macs, sweeping statements of "the PC pwnz coz it does gamez and **** better" is a half truth at best, if you want games buy a PC, I wont stop you, but if you want something that you turn on in the morning and work on till the evening and never miss a beat you can't beat a Mac.

neyo

26-03-2007, 01:07 AM

Spindryer, I hate to be the one to say this, because you seem like a nice guy, but I will say what my mind's been thinking for a while. Hit up Start/Programs/Microsoft Word.exe. Please utilize the on the fly grammar, and spelling check because your inciteful paragraphs of text really stand little base when they're filled with child like errors and inconsistencies. It's not a personal attack on you, but you're an example of many whom act up, whilst missing the basics.

As for the topic on hand, well it's developed somewhat since last time, hasn't it? Price point is an interesting subject, becasuse time and time again I read people like Spindryer who aren't really comparing point for point. You can compare CPU and GPU, you could go a little further and look at maybe the HDD and the RAM too, but to what depth do you really look at the grander picture? How about you take the iMac as an example, now look at the full specifications of the system, look at it's accessories, look at the design, look at the package as a whole. You see, the target demographic for a system like that, isn't one based around what 3DMark the system is capable of achieving, that's surely obvious, right? So if the demogrpahic isn't the 'petrol head' of the PC world, would they be that interted in whether their computer supports new PCI-e cards, or if you can clip on a pink fan with yellow fins to the CPU? I doubt it, what would they care about, why would they choose an iMac? My guess would be, they want a well designed all in one system, with the design of the hardware being the initial selling point for the machine.

If you want to compare PC's to Mac's, in a similar scenario, why not look at maybe Sony's VAIO range of all in one PC's, not some DIY garage outfit, how does it really compare?

Mac Pro is overpriced? Please digress, because frankly I don't think, once again you're looking at the comparison with a level head. It's fair to assume the Mac Pro, as the name suggests is aimed at professional people who demand power, way beyond the means of the average consumer, and of course the price point depicts that. Without checking Dell, for an example, I can assume their workstations of similar spec fetch similar prices, why is this hard to phathom out?

zCaliber's G4 is more than likely running an operating system with a far heavier payload than Windows XP. I'm sure many of you readers know Mac OS X has many technologies that compare to the recently released Windows Vista, especially noticable in terms of GUI. Now, with that said, why no chuck Vista running Aero, on the PC, and see how things work from there, it'd be a whole lot fairer, right?

It's a shame I am leaving the country on Sunday, huh, we could argue about this for weeks upon weeks, so much fun... :o

There are too many, other, more important things to be dealing with instead of farting around with drivers, defragging your machine so it stays reasonably fast and stable, worrying if that attachment for the client has got a virus on it and then swearing repeatedly at the slow down when you go and buy that virus scanner just to be on the safe side.

That is why I, and all my family use Mac's. Take my dad for instance, he has an iBook G4 which he uses like any other electronics device. He opens the lid, does what he wants to, and closes it. This was his first Mac, after previously having had a Windows XP desktop machine, which plagued him time after time. It's fair to assume, he like many appreciates the 'it just works' mentality which can only be achieved from a closed market like Apple's iPod & iTunes, and Apple's Mac's and Mac OS.

Duke87

26-03-2007, 10:00 AM

I switched to Mac 2 and a bit years ago when Jay and Steve finally convinced me to give them a go. Honestly, I doubt I'll ever switch back for day to day use. It's the blatant choice for anyone who doesn't want to game, and really the only option for anyone who wants to do some serious development work.

Bar the gaming side of things, I've not found anything I can't do on my Mac (and do using much nicer applications). Compared to the list of things that I can't do using Windows because it's not Unix based, OS X just makes sense. Admittedly, most of this functionality is useless to most people, which is where the personal preference comes in.

If you want to be able to play the latest games (and let's face it, thats the only reason to buy a top end PC), then buy a PC, put it together yourself, and put up with Windows. If not, then I really would recommend a Mac to anyone who asks me, they're just so much nicer to use.

Azure

26-03-2007, 03:47 PM

Please utilize the on the fly grammar, and spelling check because your inciteful paragraphs of text really stand little base when they're filled with child like errors and inconsistencies.

Spindryer please don't use the on the fly grammar checker because of the above example.

:D

Spindryer

26-03-2007, 04:19 PM

I'm glad we are just brushing aside the fact that PC's will actually run a top end game and a iMacs cant.... Its like saying to someone: " My new car only has one door at the rear but that’s okay because i like going though the back and climbing over my seat each day".

You can thank the muppet who made this thread for me being here now, were not discussion which computer is better for a "pro" and his work. I would rather look at the all-round picture of the vs debate.

My list of what PC's are better at "On a whole"

Faster
Cheaper
More powerful
Games
Simple to build your own how u want it
A list as long as a Donkeys d**k of software and hardware you can use.

What a Mac seems to be:

Simple to use
Secure
Instead of updating u replace the whole thing
Limited software and hardware
"Cool"
Not cheap

Hmmmm well so far i quite disappointed from the Mac fans as that above list only suggest the "mum and dad" market to me. In fact it has mid-life crisis all over it. I hope Jay will step in to take Neyos shoes and maybe lay down a decent argument for us.

The end of the day put the best Mac up against the best PC and look at the specs not what the thing looks like. Unless u want to wear it rather than use it? Then specs should mean a lot more than how it looks.

Oh and Neyo cheers for the tip ;) But at the end of the day a Car is still a Car however it is written and as long as u understood it then I'm happy.

quickshot89

26-03-2007, 05:51 PM

i think this solves all (sorry if i break any rules here)

http://rvb.roosterteeth.com/img.php?dir=media&m=1&f=9_456344d75e9e0

Duke87

26-03-2007, 07:11 PM

Sorry Spin but you really do sound like a broken record. If you're allowed to sweep aside the fact that OS X is better for professionals, I'll sweep aside the fact that Windows is better for hardcore gamers. Concentrating on the day to day user then, let's go through your arguments.

Faster - Than what? My Mac Mini is an Intel Core Duo (only core 1 admittedly) with 1 GB RAM. That's more than enough for what I need, and I push it a fair bit more than most people will.

Cheaper - Yep, I'll give you that one. However, compared to ready to run PC's from someone like Dell, there isn't that much in it. Personally, I'm more than happy to pay the bit extra for a decent OS.

More Powerful - What does that actually mean? Isn't it basically the same as speed? Which doesn't really matter to day to day users.

Build Your Own - Yes, you can do this with PC's, and it does make Macs look more expensive, but how many people in the real world actually do this? I'm willing to bet it isn't many.

And compared to your Mac list:

Simple to use - Are you actually using this against them? How is being simple to use ever going to be a bad point? Seriously?

Secure - This is probably the main reason I would keep using Macs without the technical side of things. Do the constant updates/warnings/popups not annoy the hell out of you? Some (most) of the virus scanners/firewalls are worse than the things they're supposed to protect you against. Have you ever tried to uninstall Norton/McAfee? Painful.

Updating - You can update the parts you really want to. Memory and Hard drives are easily switchable, as are the graphics cards in the machines that actually have them. Admittedly you would have to replace them with something that OS X supports, but that's all the top end ATI cards these days (as far as I know anyway).

Limited hardware - Again, yes, but would day to day users care?

Right, the last point, and this one has always pissed me off. Please, somebody actually give me this magical list of software (excluding games remember :p) that I can't find equivalent Mac versions. I seem to have said this a few million times in various similar arguments, but I have never had any problems finding software for OS X. Actually, interestingly, pretty much all of it has been legally free too. The only paid for software I think I have is M$ Office for Mac, which I did get for free through uni anyway.

Finally, please don't read this as me trying to convert people, I couldn't care less what computer you use, and I'm actually building a PC for gaming in the next week or so. I just can't stand to see so much blatant bullshit being thrown around as "fact".

corpseman

26-03-2007, 07:23 PM

Build Your Own - Yes, you can do this with PC's, and it does make Macs look more expensive, but how many people in the real world actually do this? I'm willing to bet it isn't many.
.

I do, and i imagine there must be a fairly decent demographic for it because there are a million and one websites aimed at selling components to end users & ebay is full of computer parts. i also know of 2 'computer fairs' (in Manchester & Aintree) that as like flea markets for computer parts & software that get enough business to run weekly

Duke87

26-03-2007, 07:29 PM

I do, and i imagine there must be a fairly decent demographic for it because there are a million and one websites aimed at selling components to end users & ebay is full of computer parts. i also know of 2 'computer fairs' (in Manchester & Aintree) that as like flea markets for computer parts & software that get enough business to run weekly

I do too, but my parents don't, and neither do their friends. My grandparents definitely wouldn't, and I doubt that many businesses have the time to. I'm pretty sure we're quite a small minority in the PC buying demographic.

neyo

26-03-2007, 08:04 PM

I'm glad we are just brushing aside the fact that PC's will actually run a top end game and a iMacs cant....

A top end mac, is a 'Mac Pro', and I guarentee you first hand, they are more than adequate to run a PPC game in an x86 via Rosetta faster than yours runs in Vista. These machines fly, this is 'top of the line'.

My list of what PC's are better at "On a whole"

Faster
Cheaper
More powerful
Games
Simple to build your own how u want it
A list as long as a Donkeys d**k of software and hardware you can use.

Faster - Don't we all use x86 CPU's these days? Hmm, how are PC's faster then?
Cheaper - Isn't this relevant to the specification of the machine? So again, is it really? Do you think that people who aren't going to build their system, see a massive difference between pre-built systems from Apple and other PC vendors? If you compare price on PC vs Mac, wouldn't it be right to align the goalposts, and as such shouldn't we be both talking 'off the shelf' prices? I would of thought so, because it's probably fair to assume you've ripped off Windows, you've used your own mouse and keyboard and maybe your monitor too? Oh, how long is your warranty on the machine?
More Powerful - Seriously dude, a little more thought in these posts? See 'Faster'?
Games - I think I have a Xbox 360 and a HDTV for a reason. Gaming infront of a small screen, has a certain stigma for a reason, no thanks... If I did fancy it though, couldn't I either boot Windows up, or run the Mac OS X version if it's avaliable?!
Simple to build yourself - So? Cars are 'simple to modify' for the small percentage of people who do this. I don't want to build my own computer, but if you do... Awesome, buy your parts and build a PC? :)

What a Mac seems to be:

Simple to use
Secure
Instead of updating u replace the whole thing
Limited software and hardware
"Cool"
Not cheap

Simple to use - Yes, in many scenarios, how do you uninstall applications in Windows? ;)
Secure - Yeah, it helps...
Instead of updating u replace the whole thing - Right, how many pre-built systems do you see going through a major hardware change? Oh right, we're comparing DIY to 'off the shelf' again, aren't we... My bad.
Limited software and hardware - What applications, Spin, do you use often, outside of the games which we can clearly assume aren't native OS X applications. Is it really limited, or do you not actually know?
"Cool" - So are your pink neon lights, shining through the pane of perspex in your PC, right? :)
Not cheap - Compared to what? ...Oh DIY systems, with no peripherals, or software, or warranty. Yeah, what a valid point you've raised!! :O

The end of the day put the best Mac up against the best PC and look at the specs not what the thing looks like. Unless u want to wear it rather than use it? Then specs should mean a lot more than how it looks.

First impressions of businesses are important, that's why you're likely to see alot of iMac's used in receptions, for example. So no, the design of the system is important to some people.

Oh and Neyo cheers for the tip ;) But at the end of the day a Car is still a Car however it is written and as long as u understood it then I'm happy.

No problem, I agree. But you'll seem a whole more credible with a valid argument well articulated, even if your facts are wrong, it's easy to believe someone who might seem to know what they're talking about...

Azure

26-03-2007, 08:16 PM

Riposte! Touch?! It is great to see such debate going on, love it.

sub

26-03-2007, 08:21 PM

My Mac Mini is an Intel Core Duo (only core 1 admittedly) with 1 GB RAM. That's more than enough for what I need, and I push it a fair bit more than most people will.

Actually that brings me onto something... my 1.25Ghz G4 Mini is faster for day to day tasks as well as heavy Photoshop and InDesign work (and I mean heavy design work not doing a few widdle siggies for HaloPwnz0r321) than the AMD64 3000 which it replaced.

It's faster because it works all the time, on the pc every few hours Photoshop would crash and take the whole system down, which means a restart and 15 minutes opening all the programs and files again which very quickly adds up to me wasting a serious amount of time. Where as if a program decides to keel over on my Mac (and it does happen but no where near as often as it does on the PC, maybe once a fortnight) then a quick CMD+ALT+ESC and hit Force Quit on the offending application and what do you know, everything else still works because the Operating System is so good, if I could get OSX without buying a Macintosh I would certainly consider it but I doubt it would be worth the hassle for a few ?s saved.

Hell I wasted 3 hours this afternoon reformatting the PC because Media Center decided to stop loading all on its own so it meant dragging out the MCE2005 discs, the CD of drivers and codecs and spending far too much time fannying around trying to get everything back to normal, and there are still things I need to get configured like the SPIDF connections stopped working (god knows why the hardware side is fine, just one of those software glitches)... Whereas a few months back I decided to wipe my Mini after more than a year, took 15 minutes to reformat the drive and get OSX reinstalled, another 20 minutes for the system updates, and then an hour later all the programs were installed and it was as if I hadn't reformatted (bar being about 10Gb lighter on the hard drive)

DinnyHoon

26-03-2007, 09:06 PM

I'll let most of the anti-Mac points go here, as they do have some/a lot of truth in them. Yes, Macs are more expensive and less expansive, but there is absolutely no truth in saying that OS X has a smaller software librry than Windows XP. Years ago (back in the days of OS7/8 and Win32), this was true. However, times have changed. There is a massive amount of software available for the Mac OS. Apart from games, everything you can do on Windows with third party software can be done just as easy - and sometimes even easier - on OS X.

I'll admit, when I first switched I was rather worried about the limited choice of software I was about to face. But when you look, you find. Remember, 90% of desktop computers are Windows-run PCs, and the majority of the Internet is aimed at such a market. So you don't really see that much Mac software unless you're actually looking for it, in which case, you'll find that there's a lot more than you had previously thought.

FiveOhOne

26-03-2007, 09:49 PM

Alright, I'm not wading into a 'My hardware is better than yours' (BlackBook, Duo 2 @ 2ghz, 2gb RAM FWIW). but I was completely willing to pay the nigh on 1k for this hardware simply because of the boost in productivity alone. Yes, Aqua is shiny, yes widgets are handy, but I don't see any of that... The primary beauty of a Mac, is that it's transparent. Start > Programs > Microsoft Office > Excel or I click the dock icon ( I realise I could place an icon on the desktop in windows, but wait for the bit about Automator below..).. I want to install an app? Boom drag it to the Applications folder, not sit and hit click 'OK' 8 times after dismissing windows alerting me to the fact that I might be installing something. Uninstall? Drag it to the trash.

I want to clean up all the crap that I've inevitably downloaded off the web, put it into a .zip archive and stick it on a folder on a secondary partition in which it sits for 4 weeks before being consigned to the trash never to darken my disc again: I write an automator (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/automator/) action and save it as a plug in for iCal so it runs once a week. Show me a windows app which'll let me script that in under 3 minutes (without having to write any code).

I need to log into this server to reboot apache? Launch the script from the scripts menu (optional) on the menu bar. Don't even need to install a separate app ala putty for the privilege either.

Do I see any ****ing Wizards round these here parts? No.

I need to check a site in IE, Ctrl + < and my screen changes (180 flip no less!) and bang there's XP chugging away under the surface, just waiting for an infection..

I want to Play Age of Empires 3/Civ 4? Drag the disk image on to Toast in the dock and boom the world is mine..

I'm sitting on a train, and I need to piss. Take my laptop with me? No, just turn the alarm (http://www.slappingturtle.com/home/) on...

The OS in transparent. It's there, it functions but I don't notice it. Thats the difference. No matter how much you configure your windows install, you spend a lot of time quite happily chugging through the multitude of contextual menus. I don't. Thats why I use a mac.

quickshot89

26-03-2007, 10:11 PM

fair points rain, but, the whole pc vs mac thing is stupid, pc do things the way the GUI was made, mac does it a different way, its all about how you use the interface given to you

and hardware, yes, pcs have the advantage of being upgradable easily, while mac do not

and yes, i have been on a mac before, tbh, i went on 1 just before i climbed mount kenya in 2005 while in africa

neyo

26-03-2007, 11:29 PM

I may have mocked Spindryer, but jesus christ, Quickshot, learn to type man! You won't get a single job with literacy and grammar so awful. I couldn't even be bothered to read the 3rd line of your weakly formed viewpoints because of your lack of basic english skills.

zcaliber

26-03-2007, 11:50 PM

I'm sitting on a train, and I need to piss. Take my laptop with me? No, just turn the alarm (http://www.slappingturtle.com/home/) on...

That is brutal and I want one. Everything else doesn't bother me, I'm willing to spend an extra 3 seconds installing/uninstalling something for all the other benefits of a PC. The simplicity of a Mac is nice- but it's a luxury, and when you know Windows like the back of your hand simplicity doesn't mean ****.

BIG D 04

27-03-2007, 04:03 AM

I find it hard to understand why you are all bothered by this, it's as if some of you are working for Apple and Microsoft PR Team's. People will find certain elements of the PC or Mac more essential then others, just because it's simple doesn't mean it's for Mum and Dads. The same can be said for Building Your Own PC or Customising it, just because you like that element doesn't mean you are going to stick some crappy neon lights on it. It could be merely to make a PC custom built for your Job or Home Life.

So although it's nice to compare features at the end of the day, people will use and buy what they feel comfortable with. They will test out new things and look at different products but no one is going to put up with a system that is not to their needs.

It's upto the consumer to decide what is most essential to there Work or Home Life, using them factors to make the Right Choice for themselves. There's no way you can assume that Mac is going to be better for anyone else and the same can be said for Windows, without giving it serious consideration of what are the most important features for them are.

Some features like Customisation, people couldn't give a rat's ass about they just want to get home and turn on their PC to surf the Web or check their E-mails. Where as others will come homes and maybe do some XNA Coding or PC Gaming or whatever that can only be done on a Windows PC. Just chose what's best for you....

I'm a Mac Fan for a very short time and been in love with them for a while but never has the cash to get one before, got it and loved it. Although my Mates went on it and weren't very keen, they said it's good but just not for them.

We will see this more and more and to be honest bar from explaining the benefits for you of having a Mac or Windows Computer you have to realise that those important features won't always be as appealing to the other side...No matter what stupid arguments or scenarios you use to backup your case.

/ramble - yes I love to ramble and sway in and out of the argument and even repeat myself, repeat myself, so enjoy :p

FiveOhOne

27-03-2007, 06:13 AM

The reason why we're all bothered by this, and I think I speak for both sides here, is that here lies a topic that shows all the hallmarks of a good debate : Two clearly defined teams, the odd post from someone one way or the other, Caliber has described something as 'Brutal', Azure has retired to the side lines to jeer already etc etc.. And a good debate is something this place has been lacking for quite some time...

I'm pretty sure all of us (well maybe not Spin :p) realise that we're arguing over an opinion, and no-ones going to win. It's more likely we're in it for the sport, rather than the topic itself. Well, I am anyway.

So, in conclusion, Mac OS X Roxx0rz.

BIG D 04

27-03-2007, 06:35 AM

Oh if that's the case I know this lad of another Forum and he's a **** and he'll argue about anything do you want me to send him your way?
---

So in MB360 Style...I think Linux Wins! Mainly because it's free and the others are money grabbing cunts that bring out features that no one needs but everyone needs Linux it's customisable and a ***** to use....So it's like Mac and Vista rolled into One! Enjoy!

Azure

27-03-2007, 10:15 AM

and yes, i have been on a mac before, tbh, i went on 1 just before i climbed mount kenya in 2005 while in africa

You know most people would have assumed that you would be in Africa if you were climbing Mt Kenya.

quickshot89

27-03-2007, 10:18 AM

You know most people would have assumed that you would be in Africa if you were climbing Mt Kenya.

some people might not :o

zcaliber

27-03-2007, 11:28 AM

I agree with what Rain said, people coming in here and telling people to stop arguing need to shut the **** up, we're not stupid.

Duke87

27-03-2007, 12:39 PM

So in MB360 Style...I think Linux Wins! Mainly because it's free and the others are money grabbing cunts that bring out features that no one needs but everyone needs Linux it's customisable and a ***** to use....So it's like Mac and Vista rolled into One! Enjoy!

Actually, I'm a regular Linux user, and have been posting from Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com) on my laptop for the last few days (had to leave my Mac at university). It's advertised as 'Linux for human beings' and It's come on amazingly in the last year or so, nowhere near as impossible to use as it was. Yes, there are still distributions that make you do everything yourself, and install any applications from source code, but I honestly believe any Windows user could get the hang of Ubuntu.

The install on one of these (http://www.ciao.co.uk/IBM_Thinkpad_R50e__5768095) took me about 45 minutes, asked a lot less questions than any Windows installation wizard ever has, and recognised every piece of hardware inside, and even got them all working. Adding programs is stupidly easy, and best of all, everything's completely free. It even preserved the existing Windows installation for me, so I can boot back into that on the odd occasion that I need XP.

Linux isn't actually quite as far fetched an alternative as it used to be.

BIG D 04

27-03-2007, 03:58 PM

Linux isn't actually quite as far fetched an alternative as it used to be.

Yea the Irony is that I'm actually in the process of sorting out my Old XP Laptop and replacing it with Linux but I went with openSUSE 10.2 instead. I have a very limited knowledge on it, but the best way to learn is to get to grips wit it yourself.

However I ran into problems when my DVD Drive wasn't being recognised, so I'm looking for alternatives to this.

neyo

27-03-2007, 06:08 PM

I'm pretty sure all of us (well maybe not Spin :p) realise that we're arguing over an opinion, and no-ones going to win. It's more likely we're in it for the sport, rather than the topic itself. Well, I am anyway.

Yeah, I definitely find it amusing to read and reply to, where's Spin and his rice burner PC? :p

Spindryer

27-03-2007, 08:28 PM

Rosetta don’t get me started on that, don’t think u can palm off Rosetta making the Mac being any more use than chocolate kettle running in it. One thing i have learnt from looking up things about the Mac is that Rosetta is a pile of wank.

I’m also glad to see the Mac fan boys pushing this debate to one side but I’m not giving in to oh well we cant decide as there both good. Remember bad little kiddies some Muppet made a thread called PC vs Mac and that’s what were arguing about to the DEATH!

I like the way people have broken down each part of the use of a computer and how a Mac benefits them. But i would like these same people to maybe open their eyes and acknowledge that customizing your computer isn’t just putting a "pink fan" on it. It is a massive option to have and ranges from water cooling to the size case its in to even hardware that sits in it.

Maybe a break down of all the aspects of computing (ALL!) and then maybe a scoring for each one as so far still the Mac fans have done nothing that has impressed me. I can only see that day-to-day using a Mac is better but why is it? Rain gave a brief load of Jargon but tbh when have to load up windows anyway to your Mac that says something about how much you love your OS.

And Neyo this ones just for you……… First of all take down that picture of you, as your aviator is turning me on yet making me feel slightly sick at the same time. Secondly i don’t give **** about my grammar/ spell. I was/have/will never be good at it. I run all my long posts through Windows Word (CTRL C > CTRL V) before i post them and that’s the best your going to get from me so don’t even bother again in the future commenting on it.

carocat

27-03-2007, 08:45 PM

Remember bad little kiddies some Muppet made a thread called PC vs Mac and that?s what were arguing about to the DEATH!
Just to clear this up, I am the bad kid I suppose. This argument was going on in two different threads which were about PC's and not Macs, so I combined it in here. Carry on....

kurosaki7

27-03-2007, 08:53 PM

Azure

27-03-2007, 08:56 PM

I'd like to just touch on what Sub was saying about defragging and stuff...

Defragging on a pc takes about 15 minutes in my experience and about as many seconds to find and activate, and you only need to do it once a month and that is if you are forever installing/uninstalling programs and moving large volumes of data about.

I can't see personally how "Defragging" a PC can be painted to be such a chore, yes it is a chore but who hasn't got 15 minutes spare once a month.

Also I just run a basic firewall and run a corporate level spyware scan maybe once every 4-6 weeks, that takes 15 minutes too, it really isn't a big deal. I don't know how people can get such instability on windows, the way you were talking about PS crashing repeatedly etc... I haven't ever had an experience like that except when running Halo CE ona laptop, it would repeatedly crash on the clock every 4 or so games, but to be fair I was using a custom built driver that was the only way to get Halo to even run so I doubt that really counts.

I think you mentioned that if the program hangs then you can gain control of your computer using OSX whereas you can't with windows... Same story again for me, a program locking up [ I can't ever remember one doing so on me] it is just a case of ctrl+alt+del. Never failed me at home.

Likewise with Tao on pricing.

Core2Duo 2.8ghz
2 Gigabytes of branded RAM 1066mhz
320 Sata II HDD
X1950 Pro

for circa ?850

Duke87

27-03-2007, 09:21 PM

Rosetta don?t get me started on that, don?t think u can palm off Rosetta making the Mac being any more use than chocolate kettle running in it. One thing i have learnt from looking up things about the Mac is that Rosetta is a pile of wank.

Rosetta is brilliant. The only reason I've ever realised it's running is when I've accidently run an application that was built for the old PowerPC processors and it's been a bit slow. However, the fact that it even exists, never mind runs so transparently, is amazing. I don't think PPC and x86 could be much more different.

I like the way people have broken down each part of the use of a computer and how a Mac benefits them. But i would like these same people to maybe open their eyes and acknowledge that customizing your computer isn?t just putting a "pink fan" on it. It is a massive option to have and ranges from water cooling to the size case its in to even hardware that sits in it.

I'd also like to see you open your eyes to the fact that not many people care that they can open their PC and change the graphics card. Yes, it's useful to the hardcore gamer (and some others), and that's why that group will, and should, continue to buy PC's. You honestly think the average computer user wants water cooling?!

Maybe a break down of all the aspects of computing (ALL!) and then maybe a scoring for each one as so far still the Mac fans have done nothing that has impressed me. I can only see that day-to-day using a Mac is better but why is it? Rain gave a brief load of Jargon but tbh when have to load up windows anyway to your Mac that says something about how much you love your OS.

Unfortunately, since most of the world still have Windows/IE forced down their throats, and Jay spends a fair amount of time in web design, Windows is a necessary evil. Also, I think he's hit the nail on the head with the transparency thing. OS X just doesn't get in your way like Windows does. I can't explain it precisely, but it just feels like I have to fight with Windows to get it to do what I want.

You seem to be quite good at just insulting other peoples arguments without bringing up any decent ones of your own. The only one's I can see are customisation and gaming, both of which are applicable to a minority, similar to (although obviously bigger than) the graphics pro's who use Macs because they're the only machines that allow them to do what they want to do. A group which we were told we weren't allowed to use as an argument?

Spindryer

27-03-2007, 09:23 PM

Does the Mac pro give the option to run with an SLi set up ?

EDIT:

"You seem to be quite good at just insulting other peoples arguments without bringing up any decent ones of your own" - Maybe, but im still amazed by how such small things for a Mac user can mean so much when faced with limited options. I don't need to list What a PC can do as i just put a tick in the does it all box [/].

The only thing it does'nt have are "some" of programs made just for Mac, that is why i would love to know what makes these things so much more important to have over a PC which if you wanted to you could have the most powerful machine you wanted at your home and then 12 months later update it with ease to "new" most powerful computer.

I would like not just to focus on "mum and dad" every day use of a computer but explore the benefits of the range of computers and hardware on offer. Although its been said more than once the Mac series just works and is easy to use for most ppl i happen to even disagree with that. An out of the box PC is also a piece of piss to run and use if you only want to use it for day to day stuff. Its only when a person wants more from a computer the real benefits come through.

Duke87

27-03-2007, 09:27 PM

No Cat your the muppet, the bad kiddies are the ones in the thread :P

I have to concur to the removal of neyos avatar too, it almost made me bring up my lunch at work :P

Anyhoo, if you can price a mac to this pc spec:

Intel Core Duo 3.2 Ghz
2 GB Ram
8800 GTS 640mb
320gb hdd
250gb hdd

and manage to come in under 1500 then i will be very impressed. I would add more but gtg

Actually just priced that up on dell.co.uk. ?1,663.49. Admittedly, that's a Core 2, but it's a bottom end one, and the graphics card has 768MB of VRAM, but you get my point.

EDIT: And the Mac version. They don't do single dual cores, but two 2.0Ghz Dual Core Xeons should do right? They also don't do the 8800, but again, two 7300GT's should be ok? Everything else pretty much identical, comes to ?1929. Yup, ?300 more. Is that really that bad considering SLI'ed graphics and double the number of processors?

quickshot89

27-03-2007, 09:39 PM

duke that's dell, its a bad idea to use them as an example, they rip you off when you could easily build the pc yourself

just thought you better know that

Duke87

27-03-2007, 09:44 PM

Yeah, but if we're comparing like for like, prebuilt it is. Feel free to find another company.

Spindryer

27-03-2007, 09:46 PM

No you see Duke, you have to buy from Mac but people dont have to buy a pre-built over priced PC like they would do for a Mac, its another small and money saving benefit the PC users have.

Brings me back to the whole point of paying for a label, a really cool label like Mac will set you back more money than a dell label ;)

Duke87

27-03-2007, 10:14 PM

Yes, PC users have the option to build for themselves (I do honestly wish I had that option), but I'd still maintain that most would buy prebuilt, and that there is very little price difference in that area. However, I'll give you that one for now, there is definitely a premium on the Apple branding for those who are willing to build themselves.

On the other hand, I'd like to think I'm not the sort of person who buys something for the label, and I'd still buy a Mac over the cheaper, 'faster' PC with Windoze, as would a rapidly growing share of the market. So they must be doing something right?

sub

27-03-2007, 10:45 PM

Brings me back to the whole point of paying for a label, a really cool label like Mac will set you back more money than a dell label ;)

Whats the label on your shoes? Your tshirt? Your jeans? Your car (or parents car, dont know if you own one or not)?
You get what you pay for, a BMW is more expensive than a Mondeo, a Mac is more expensive than a Dell, there are reasons for this.

Azure: god knows how small your hard drives are for a defrag to take just 15 minutes, on the 14Gb partition my MCE2005 OS sits on it takes 45-60 minutes to defrag, and thats done weekly! The 120 and 160Gb partitions take more than 2 hours to defrag if the system even does it, usually hangs at about 10% and never recovers.

"I don't know how people can get such instability on windows, the way you were talking about PS crashing repeatedly etc... I haven't ever had an experience like that"

It's what I use the computer for, having 300Mb+ files open does take a big toll on a computer's stability, no PC I have ever had has been able to cope, I've had the brand name PCs and they go down very quickly, I've built 2 PCs and guess what, they don't cope either. My Mac Mini, which cost me a whole ?350 has never skipped a beat, and the odd time it does have a problem it's very quick to recover from it.

neyo

27-03-2007, 11:01 PM

Rain gave a brief load of Jargon but tbh when have to load up windows anyway to your Mac that says something about how much you love your OS.
'Brief load'? lol.

So the fact that Macintosh computer can run more applications than your Windows computer, isn't impressive? I don't mind being able to use Windows Apps, Mac OS X and UNIX apps in X11 (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/x11/). I don't suppose you can do that on your PC, can you? Now who has an inferior software library? The irony of the argument here, is it's actually not platform dependant, but simple hardware dependant. Prebuilt from Apple, prebuilt from vendors like Dell, or DIY job? It's a choice between running Windows on one machine, or having Mac OS X/Windows & UNIX applications all running natively on the same hardware achitechture.

Not impressed? No I thought not.

It's what I use the computer for, having 300Mb+ files open does take a big toll on a computer's stability, no PC I have ever had has been able to cope, I've had the brand name PCs and they go down very quickly, I've built 2 PCs and guess what, they don't cope either. My Mac Mini, which cost me a whole ?350 has never skipped a beat, and the odd time it does have a problem it's very quick to recover from it.
It'd be fair to assume it's not the hardware at fault here, then, but the operating system itself, yes?

Why compare prebuilt to DIY, surely in any market sector, a DIY job usually is cheaper than getting a professional to do it for you? It's a bit of a void argument, isn't it?

Spin - What's Rosetta and why's it wank? My brother doesn't think WoW on Mac OS X on X86 is wank, he loves it. Please enlighten us your viewpoints on Rosetta.

corpseman

27-03-2007, 11:02 PM

Azure: god knows how small your hard drives are for a defrag to take just 15 minutes, on the 14Gb partition my MCE2005 OS sits on it takes 45-60 minutes to defrag, and thats done weekly! The 120 and 160Gb partitions take more than 2 hours to defrag if the system even does it, usually hangs at about 10% and never recovers.

the rate at which you defrag depends heavily upon how fragmented you let the partition get, how full the partition is, the size of the fragments and the percentage of the space taken up by unmoveable fragments. you can defrag a decent sized harddrive in 15 mins provided it isnt very fragmented (which it wont be if you defrag every month) and isnt like 85% full (you cant defrag with less than 15% space)

FiveOhOne

28-03-2007, 08:39 AM

You can stick 4 x NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB in there, for a gig of GPU power for ~200 ish. Mac Pro's back in the days of the PowerMac used to be liquid cooled, but they've since rejigged the design so they run a lot cooler anyway, without the need to the multitude of fans either. Still nicely arranged and compartmentalised. Find me an off the shelf that looks this good inside : http://www.apple.com/macpro/design.html

An out of the box PC may be 'a piece of piss to run' but a mac is easier. Thats a fact.

Window's PC's don't 'do it all' either. Not without some hardcore configuration. Out of the box, a Mac is a preconfigured webserver (Tiger even has Ruby built in, with Leopard touting Rails too), It's an FTP server, an SSH server, and can even be slotted straight into a super computing cluster with the use of xGrid. No extra installs, configuration in to the form of a tick box in System Preferences. It bundles an industrial strength firewall in the shape of ipfw. To anything severely better your looking to need one of these (http://www.sun.com/servers/index.jsp) (which'll probably end up running ipfw anyway).

xCode comes on the install CD's, giving you a full development suite, out of the box. No pesky downloads or registrations. All free. Automator is preinstalled with the OS, making life easier for everyone.

XP supports 4gb RAM max I believe, OS X is limited only by the hardware, with the MacPro's at 16gb, and the xServes at 32gb.

Power doesn't just come from whats on the spec sheet. Apple hardware is designed to work flawlessly as a unit, it's not a mishmash of the best parts available. Bus speeds, pipelines and the rest of it are all optimized to run to make the machine as stable and productive as possible. And it works. I know that my hardware will do exactly what I need it to do, for the next three years at least. After that sure I'll upgrade, but i'll not be spending all my time thinking hmm.. Should I add more ram or change my motherboard? I don't care. It works. It's fast. I'm happy.

I tried to set up my XP workstation in the office to mirror the kind of functionality I get from my MacBook. I ended up installing Fedora and being done with it.

The world is indeed filled with a multitude of windows applications. Problem is, they're all ****. If your so sure windows can do everything Spin, find me windows equivalents of the following applications:
Textmate (http://macromates.com/)
rTorrent (http://libtorrent.rakshasa.no/wiki)
Growl (http://growl.info/)
Little Snitch (http://www.obdev.at/products/littlesnitch/index.html)
xCode (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/xcode/) - Note: Eclipse/NetBeans are linux apps ported to Windows - I'm looking for Windows specifics ;-)

Edit: Goddam it, I keep coming in a page late. & Steve, dump the av or I will you ugly mofo.

Azure

28-03-2007, 08:43 AM

"I don't know how people can get such instability on windows, the way you were talking about PS crashing repeatedly etc... I haven't ever had an experience like that"

It's what I use the computer for, having 300Mb+ files open does take a big toll on a computer's stability, no PC I have ever had has been able to cope, I've had the brand name PCs and they go down very quickly, I've built 2 PCs and guess what, they don't cope either. My Mac Mini, which cost me a whole ?350 has never skipped a beat, and the odd time it does have a problem it's very quick to recover from it.

Fair play then.

@ Rain... What use is 4x Graphics cards if there is no Sli? Wouldn't that limit it to just powering more and more monitors?

zcaliber

28-03-2007, 09:05 AM

It works. It's fast. I'm happy.

Same here- difference being my PC cost me 300 pounds. The "It works" thing got old like 10 pages ago, if we're supposed to be arguing over which is best we should be talking games, benchmarks, compatability, the things that really matter, especially since they can both run Windows. I agree a Mac is better for work, and I have one for that, simply due to the fact it is less likely to **** up. But I still want a PC for casual use, and it's not because I'm ignorant to the greatness of macs, it's for solid reasons that Mac fans seem to overlook when they become part "Mac Community" (lol.)

FiveOhOne

28-03-2007, 10:36 AM

Fair play then.

@ Rain... What use is 4x Graphics cards if there is no Sli? Wouldn't that limit it to just powering more and more monitors?

What? Where? Don't know what your talking about ;-)

Luke: But what are these solid reasons, other than you can build a PC, limited to running windows and linux, for cheaper than a Mac?

zcaliber

28-03-2007, 11:10 AM

There's a few but I'm sure they've already been touched upon in previous pages, being cheaper is a benefit though. If I were to buy a new PC (And i am considering it) It will be mainly for gaming. I'm pretty sure Mac's aint as good as PC's for games, but maybe that's a seperate debate altogether

FiveOhOne

28-03-2007, 11:25 AM

Macs are good for games. But you have to spend a crap load. I'll happily concede that point, and that point alone. :P Everything else I can do better on a Mac.

kurosaki7

28-03-2007, 11:50 AM

Actually just priced that up on dell.co.uk. ?1,663.49. Admittedly, that's a Core 2, but it's a bottom end one, and the graphics card has 768MB of VRAM, but you get my point.

EDIT: And the Mac version. They don't do single dual cores, but two 2.0Ghz Dual Core Xeons should do right? They also don't do the 8800, but again, two 7300GT's should be ok? Everything else pretty much identical, comes to ?1929. Yup, ?300 more. Is that really that bad considering SLI'ed graphics and double the number of processors?

I got a prebuilt system and it was ?1200, so ?700 difference, admittedly the processors are better but the SLI config dosent come close to a GTS. What sort of storage did that have? about 250 gig?

Im sorry but apple need to drop their prices by up to 300 really, they are great machines but apple are also money grabbers, you just have to look at the ipod and iphone to see that.

@Rain 4x 7300GT, there would be no point most of it would be wasted, is there even 4 x PCIE (x16) slots?

As for the games, what games actually get released for a mac straight off and not have a year delay? I think thats the main issue when its comes to gaming on macs, when games are released for them and general lack of support from developers for gaming on macs.

Duke87

28-03-2007, 12:01 PM

I got a prebuilt system and it was ?1200, so ?700 difference, admittedly the processors are better but the SLI config dosent come close to a GTS. What sort of storage did that have? about 250 gig?

Where from? Not that I'm accusing you of lying, I'm actually just intrigued. Yeah, I definitely wouldn't buy the extras from Apple themselves. If I was buying a Mac Pro with those specs, I'd get a cheaper one with just the processor I wanted and up the other internals myself.

Im sorry but apple need to drop their prices by up to 300 really, they are great machines but apple are also money grabbers, you just have to look at the ipod and iphone to see that.

It would be nice, but they're getting away with it, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

@Rain 4x 7300GT, there would be no point most of it would be wasted, is there even 4 x PCIE (x16) slots?

Yes.

As for the games, what games actually get released for a mac straight off and not have a year delay? I think thats the main issue when its comes to gaming on macs, when games are released for them and general lack of support from developers for gaming on macs.

You can run Windows on a Mac now though, so that's irrelevant.

FiveOhOne

28-03-2007, 12:02 PM

@Tao: http://www.apple.com/macpro/specs.html Yes.

Chet Webley

28-03-2007, 12:10 PM

DUKE! how dare you suggest running windows on a mac! *shudders*. besides, computers are tools, and not for playing games on. that's what consoles are for *shakes head*

@tao, as for Mac being money grabbers, you get what you pay for - i can only recall 1 mac i've ever used breaking properly, and that was because of a duff hard disk. countless times on pc's that i've used RAM chips have been crap, boards have burnt out. PC's are only as cheap as they are because there's 17million companies competing to make the bits, and they're built by 4 year old kids in bangladesh that do 600hr weeks to save money for their grandmother's cataract operations. i'm sitting in front of a 4 year old mac now, that works like the day it was bought. how many pc's do that?

Azure

28-03-2007, 12:12 PM

Graphics and Displays

* Double-wide 16-lane PCI Express graphics slot with one of the following graphics cards installed:
o NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT with 256MB of GDDR2 SDRAM, one single-link DVI port, and one dual-link DVI port
o ATI Radeon X1900 XT with 512MB of GDDR3 SDRAM and two dual-link DVI ports
o NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 with 512MB of GDDR3 SDRAM, two dual-link DVI ports, and one stereo 3D port
* Multiple graphics card configurations including two, three, or four NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT cards
* 300W for up to four PCI Express graphics cards

Where does it say there are 4x PCI-e 16x slots?

@ Webley, I failed to quickly find out he country of origin for Apple Macs but for Intel chips, well they will be from Asia as well and therefore from some poor 6 year old kid too right? So that's at least part of the mac "suffering" the same cheapness. Not that I would call it cheap, Taos PC and my own are made from premium parts, thats the difference quality bits from quality vendors and apple using some of the exact same parts come in at over ?700 more, and are now exhalted as "You get what you pay for"... ?

What I am saying is that whilst your comparison might be somewhat valid against a ?300 thrown together piece of ****, it certainly doesnt hold true to branded components that each come iwth 3-5 year warranties that STILL come under a MAc by ?700.

FiveOhOne

28-03-2007, 12:18 PM

PCI Express expansion 3
Three open full-length PCI Express expansion slots
Configurable bandwidth that mechanically supports 16-lane cards

It says it here (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304122) too :P

kurosaki7

28-03-2007, 12:22 PM

I bought it from SCAN - 3XS Systems Duke. Never bothered to look through the full specs before, but seen as though im bored at work, its pretty damn good. In the future i may consider switching to a mac if consoles show promise again but that will be a good year from now at least. As then i would not have to pay through the roof for a gaming set-up and deal with a good working solution.

But realistically i think if anything i would get a macbook pro if i was ever to purchase a mac. I did just price up a basic mac pro system for 1500 which would run the likes of hl2 quite nicely so i suppose it is not as 'bad' as i first presumed, if apple reduced the pricepoint slightly to try to delve into another layer of market, and gave more support for newer gpu's then i think many more people would see them as the preferred choice.

Webley, im sorry but PC's last that long with no problems if you know what to buy, macs are overpriced, you are paying for the 'mac' name not for build quality. If mac were not as well known as they are and needed to break through im certain their prices would tell how much they 'should' be.

Azure

28-03-2007, 12:22 PM

Ah fair play then.

Just a shame it can only use **** cards and not Sli them then isn't it? :P

@ Tao, running a 3 year old FPS on a ?1500 machine isn't exactly awe inspiring though is it :P

FiveOhOne

28-03-2007, 12:23 PM

I bought it from SCAN - 3XS Systems Duke. Never bothered to look through the full specs before, but seen as though im bored at work, its pretty damn good. In the future i may consider switching to a mac if consoles show promise again but that will be a good year from now at least. As then i would not have to pay through the roof for a gaming set-up and deal with a good working solution.

But realistically i think if anything i would get a macbook pro if i was ever to purchase a mac. I did just price up a basic mac pro system for 1500 which would run the likes of hl2 quite nicely so i suppose it is not as 'bad' as i first presumed, if apple reduced the pricepoint slightly to try to delve into another layer of market, and gave more support for newer gpu's then i think many more people would see them as the preferred choice.

You not in any kind of further education? You get a good chunk off with EDU discounts ;)

Edit: I reckon it could quite happily chunk through something like Supreme Commander though...

Duke87

28-03-2007, 12:27 PM

Apparently some people have managed to get SLi working under Windows. I haven't particularly looked into it though, so I dunno how much hacking is required.

kurosaki7

28-03-2007, 12:28 PM

Yeah but SC is heavily CPU not GPU based so your probably right on that one. No i havent been a student for over a year now, im now working, actually having to work hard for a change!! (If sitting at a computer all day can actually ever be hard work :/)

On that topic, my lunch break is over now :( back to doing boring e-commerce sites.

Duke87

28-03-2007, 12:33 PM

It says it here (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304122) too :P

Unfortunately, that's not actually true. If you read slightly further, they mention that only a maximum of 26 lanes can be in use at any one time. So if you do stick 4 16x cards in, only one of them can actually run at full speed.

FiveOhOne

28-03-2007, 01:01 PM

See, I was banking on Harris skim reading that.

quickshot89

28-03-2007, 02:27 PM

Apparently some people have managed to get SLi working under Windows. I haven't particularly looked into it though, so I dunno how much hacking is required.

that's a hack thou, not very good if you have to hack it

all i can say if, macs are very very nice, and they do seem to work all the time, but why pay alot when you can just do it on windows for half the price??

@ azure, you mentioned quality components, how much did ypu pay for your GPU, RAM, and HDD? and what was the model number of your MOBO, as im getting the ASUS P5W DH Deluxe SKT 775 (well, ordering it)

Duke87

28-03-2007, 02:34 PM

all i can say if, macs are very very nice, and they do seem to work all the time, but why pay alot when you can just do it on windows for half the price??

You just answered your own question.

Azure

28-03-2007, 02:40 PM

See, I was banking on Harris skim reading that.

****er....

My GPU was about ?150 IIRC, Mobo was about ?125 and HDD was about the ?60 I think.

x1950 Pro
Asus p5B Deluxe
Seagate 7200.10 320gig

Thats what they are, might be cheaper now.

quickshot89

28-03-2007, 04:50 PM

cheers azure, the x1950 pro has come down by 10 i think, HDD is around 54ish (different make i think, cant remember) and the mobo seems to be around the same, even for a different version

ordering tomorrow you see, thats why i was querying

edit: for azure, you may like this: http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?rb=25911189833&action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=119203

if you go crossfire

Spindryer

28-03-2007, 08:53 PM

Well fuk me they all come out of the wood work in the office hours don't they :P To go back to the list you gave of programs Jay for a start would utorrent do the same job as the rtorrent? And i checked the text document program out and seemed nothing special so i can only "assume" there would be a program to match it for windows.

So after all of that what has the Mac going for it again? the programs it uses that windows cant ? Surly that is purely personal opinion and cannot be told as a fact. What can be are fundamental things what you CAN do with it out side of software uses as in today's world there seems to be equal programs for each.

So i could run the latest games on my PC without the need of hacks/special-programs and spending an arm and a leg. I could replace any part of the hardware that i wanted to with minimum fuss. I could build a computer that is right for me to the dot. I will be compatible with over 77% (ive seen figers from 77% to 88% so i picked the lowest). There all things that are not personal opinion there fact.

If all the Mac users have got are a few programs that in there opinion are better to run then im quite disappointed tbh, the theory of Macs being safer is also an interesting one as now Macs have made it part of there advertising that they are more secure because of viruses being made from Windows all the time. Well times change and Macs will soon become a victim of there own success as a virus can be written and spread just as easily though Macs. In fact as standard PC users have anti-everything-were, we are ready for virus etc....But what about the Mac users who are under the illusion that there untouchable.... Its gonna hit a lot harder.

Anyways im sure this wont be the end of it and i hope it wont. Maybe as the Mac Pro is being used as an example so much we could put up a bench mark of the best PC u could put together and then compare....