This image

[Mazzy]

There has been a debate going on, over this image. http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3495/pbsigfi8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I personaly think that this image is bringing down the whole image of these forums. I believe in freedom of expresion, and freedom to do what the hell you please,but i belive that there should be a standard in our forums, and images and posting should be to somewhat of a standard.

At first i belived this image to be a picture of a retarded person, but the real image has been posted and it is of a fat kid playing a guitar.
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3473/11585081821158004043671hq3.th.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11585081821158004043671hq3.jpg)

Now, thats fair enough. i was corrected, and its not a retarded kid. BUT it still doesnt change the fact that it looks like a retard when you cut out the kids face.

And with that reasoning if i was to have this as my avatar,
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1451/kkkko6.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kkkko6.jpg)

Whould it be ok ? just because that the REAL image is of a DVD cover ?

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1999/aae7304003vt0.th.jpg (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aae7304003vt0.jpg)
(im sorry if this offends anyone, i could only find this image to prove my point.)

Now, some staff have been against me on this one, and some have agreed with me, other think that i was being imature about the whole, " if they can have there Retarded image , ill have it aswell", and why stop there, and made a sig out of it aswell. Except i cant because liam got upset and asked the staff to remove them from me. which as you can see, has happened. for some reason theres a new rule that you cant have the same avatar as someone else. So ill never be able to put up a man u avatar, or even a mb360 one.

Now, the reason behind this thread is to ask the rest of the comunity about this. im not trying to rally people to my cause with this thread, and im not trying to cause friction between people, and staff. im just wanting to know others opinions on this matter. what ever the outcome of this poll, ill fall inline.

So, do you

A, Belive we should have a stantard, an image to this site. and certain images should be removed/banned.

or

B, Keep the image and allow all to pick and choose what sort of images they want, regaurdless of the image of the site.

Lets have ONE post per member on this please, and do not reply to anyone else's post.

[Tim]

Well I'd support removing the image but really that's not all I'd like to see removed...

[Liam]

First of all, why are you comparing a fat kid to the KKK? Secondly, Its just a picture, get over it.
Except i cant because liam got upset and asked the staff to remove them from me
Also, don't lie. I haven't even spoke to the staff about the picture.

[carocat]

Apologies, Liam, that was my fault. It was infact Pirate who said it. :)

[DayC]

and im not trying to cause friction between people, and staff.

Well you clearly are trying to get your own back for being de-modded. I've never seen a person get so upset about an image that isn't offensive in anyway at all. That same person then posts an edited image of the Ku Klux Klan from a dvd cover clearly trying to cause controversy on a forum and still claims he is offended by the previous the picture. That is really sad, if anything you should take down the kkk picture.

[quickshot89]

i say remove it, mazzy knows how i feel, its a disgusting picture that shouldn't be allowed and if its allowed to stay, it will make people feel uncomfortable, as i feel that way everytime i see it, its disgusting, degrading, and quite frankly, its just plain wrong

[Mazzy]

First of all, why are you comparing a fat kid to the KKK? Secondly, Its just a picture, get over it.

Also, don't lie. I haven't even spoke to the staff about the picture.

Im not, you missed the point entirely there, im saying, if its ok to put up a pick of a retard kid, but its actually a pic of a fat kid. but its ok if you post an image saying its not really a retard. then why cant i put up an image of the KKK, even tho its just a DVD cover of some documentry on them. im not supporting the KKK, its just a dvd and cut around the edge. sorry liam, i could'nt remember who said what.

Again, i did apoligise about the image, im sorry if it offends people, its the only image i found to prove said point.

Well you clearly are trying to get your own back for being de-modded. I've never seen a person get so upset about an image that isn't offensive in anyway at all. That same person then posts an edited image of the Ku Klux Klan from a dvd cover clearly trying to cause controversy on a forum and still claims he is offended by the previous the picture. That is really sad, if anything you should take down the kkk picture.

I got demodded for something completely different and has no rellevance to this topic, and again the KKK image was the best way to point out what im saying, it could have easily have been an image of something else.

Its not that the image is offensive, its that it brings down the look of the whole site.

[Innes]

"its the only image i found to prove said point"

"it could have easily have been an image of something else."

contradicted yourself their

[Gaskin]

The image doesn't even look like a 'retard', I wasn't going to post in here but you're disrespecting MB360 and it's staff by making this thread and purposely causing upset.

Thread re-opened.. keep it CLEAN.

[Pirate Balloon]

Apologies, Liam, that was my fault. It was infact Pirate who said it. :)Hahha whoa, i dont remember ever saying he should get rid of it. I commented on it yeah, but didnt actually say i wanted it removed. I thought it was pretty irrational thing to do, and i thought it was kinda wierd, but i couldnt care less if it was removed or not.

for some reason theres a new rule that you cant have the same avatar as someone else.Oh come on this is a completly rational rule, it makes perfect sense, and it's applied in every forum i've visited. It's so we can distinguish between members quickly.

Now, thats fair enough. i was corrected, and its not a retarded kid. BUT it still doesnt change the fact that it looks like a retard when you cut out the kids face.

And with that reasoning if i was to have this as my avatar,
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1451/kkkko6.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kkkko6.jpg)

Whould it be ok ? just because that the REAL image is of a DVD cover ?

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1999/aae7304003vt0.th.jpg (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aae7304003vt0.jpg)
(im sorry if this offends anyone, i could only find this image to prove my point.)*slaps you* That is completly blown out of proportion. How can you possibly compaire an image of a chubby kid to a burning crucifix!? Are you unstable? Sicne when has a chubby face ever offended anyone? If you had a KKK avatar people would immediatly assume you as some extremist rascist.

No really, you are compairing a badass kid playing guitar to a burning crucifix, what is wrong with you. There is no ****in way you could ever compaire the two.

Yes, highly controversial avatars should be removed as soon as posible, but how can a picture of a kid EVER be as damaging to anyone?

A, Belive we should have a stantard, an image to this site. and certain images should be removed/banned.How can you possibly enforce this? Everybody's standards will be different. Unless you are saying everything should be done to your standard, or someone elses? Of course, i agree with standards such as proper english and punctuation on the boards, but standards as to people's avatars? Naw, if it looks stupid it'll make the member look stupid, rather than the board. If you dont wanna have bad image, then make your avatar nice, it'll make you stand out from the rest.

Offensive images should be banned, i fully agree. But pictures as to which you think are wierd etc? C'mon.

I see arguemets breaking out every time someone says "no, that's not acceptable".

So ill never be able to put up a man u avatar, or even a mb360 one.Sure you can, just as long as it's not the same picture.

B, Keep the image and allow all to pick and choose what sort of images they want, regaurdless of the image of the site.

Lets have ONE post per member on this please, and do not reply to anyone else's post.C'mon, these are two extreme options. This whole thread was made just so you could get rid of my avatar because you have a vendetta against the badasskid.jpg. I cant really choose either, because there should be, and already is a standard, but my avatar shoud stay becuase it is compeltly in line with the rules and is not damaging anyone except maybe my own credability.

Jeeezz if you want i will resize it so it is no so intrusive to your reading pleasure. But at the end of the day it IS just a light hearted avatar which is doing NOTHING wrong to offend the forum's image.


Now, some staff have been against me on this one, and some have agreed with me, other think that i was being imature about the whole, " if they can have there Retarded image , ill have it aswell",You crusaded to get the avatar removed, then got told it can stay. You then threw a hissy fit because you didnt get your own way and added it to your signature as a weak form of protest. I'm sorry but that IS immature, no matter which way you look at it.

[Chet Webley]

it's just stupid, isn't it? badassfatkid, i mean. the only thing that's really disgusting around here, is the risible spelling.

any form of censorship should be approached very carefully. if you ban avatars of fat kids & burning crosses because they offend people, where do you stop? signatures about gay people?

[IcemanLeigh]

Wait. Hang on now.

You are comparing taking an image which is completely harmless, making it into an avatar which you have wrongly assumed is an offensive image, to an offensive image that you have taken out of context? Lets face it these are two VERY different things.

Surely even you can see that taking something out of its context completely to create an offensive image, is completely different to having an image that is of no harm to anyone that you have wrongly construed as an offensive image..

The fact of the matter is, I agree with you that Pirate and Liam should have different avatars to each other (the flipped image simply does not cut it) because they follow each other around and post after each other in almost every thread. However, the actual image itself is completely fine and you are completely irrationally arguing a problem that you created in the first place because you assumed an image was something that it is not.

Maybe people think quickshots image looks like a midget? Or someone who hasnt seen star wars might think that Chets image is something that it is not, how about Cats image? That could be misconstrued as animal cruelty could it not? This would not change the fact that ACTUALLY they are all completely harmless images which someone has misinterpreted, exactly how you have done here.

for some reason theres a new rule that you cant have the same avatar as someone else. So ill never be able to put up a man u avatar, or even a mb360 one.

You know for a fact that this quote is not true, so why say it? It is a complete and utter lie. The reason the image was removed from you was because of the motives behind you having it, and not the actual image itself. You were being deliberatly defiant, and trying to make a point by creating a stir and starting arguements with other members which is completely unnacceptable. I have no problem with anyone having the same image as someone else, it is a free choice, however if you used the same avatar as another member and then posted in the exact same threads as them, just after the other member has posted in the same way that pirate and liam do, then I would make a request that yours is removed because of confusing and distinction reasons.

Your poll options are ridiculously extreme and provide no middle ground, and your arguement does the same.

[Retro]

I dont give two ****s about the avatars, but someone needs to put a stop to these kids, before they bring this place down.

They seem to get away with murder.

They spam every possible thread open.
They are abusive to other members.
They do that stupid *high five thing, which should be a straight away ban.
They have caused more arguments than me and Razorlyte.
They have nothing of vaule to add to anything.
They are the owners of the spam thread.
..............


Someone needs to step up now and act upon this.

[carocat]

They have caused more arguments than me and Razorlyte.
That is the most impressive thing really.

It's been ages since you guys had an argument as well....

[Razor]

Well since Pirate & Liam have come to the forums the standards changed completly.
Retro reached none bad kid status thanks to them ;)

[DinnyHoon]

I voted for A (a little law and order can't harm, can it?), but I see nothing wrong with Liam's avatar. This just sounds like you have a personal beef with Liam and/or Pirate, and are trying to take it out by recommending rules that would inconvenience them. Asmuch as I agree with you that there should be some restrictions to images used on profiles, I don't think it should be as draconian as disallowing pictures of kids which 'might look retarded'. Of course, I'm not saying that a KKK avatar is at all suitable under any circumstances. But I am saying that in no way would such a situation be comparible to something so trivial.

[Retro]

That is the most impressive thing really.

It's been ages since you guys had an argument as well....


I learnt my lesson.


Well since Pirate & Liam have come to the forums the standards changed completly.
Retro reached none bad kid status thanks to them

Im touched. :p

[Mazzy]

Someone needs to step up now and act upon this.

I did, and thats how this all started. i steped up and removed said image as it was bringing down the look of the forum.

Your missing the point still, its that it looks **** on the forums, and we should have some sort of standard.

take one picture of a masterpiece.

http://www.bonusround.com/book4-4/images/Img_3287a.jpg
harmless?

and cut out a picture of it, for an avatar

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/7480/untitledew7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

not exactly what you want posted all over matchbox360 is it? because what ever way you look at it, its still a picture of some guys ****.

[Xg Corkin]

Get rid of it, end of. ;)

[Mazzy]

This just sounds like you have a personal beef with Liam and/or Pirate,

no i do not, i had liam on my FL for pgr and he is a sound guy and i enjoyed raceing with him, its not about them, its ALL about the image and what it brings to the site. thats all. im sorry if liam or pirate take offense, by me and my dislike to there image and what it is doing to our great site.

[Pirate Balloon]

I did, and thats how this all started. i steped up and removed said image as it was bringing down the look of the forum.

Your missing the point still, its that it looks **** on the forums, and we should have some sort of standard.

take one picture of a masterpiece.

http://www.bonusround.com/book4-4/images/Img_3287a.jpg
harmless?

and cut out a picture of it, for an avatar

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/7480/untitledew7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

not exactly what you want posted all over matchbox360 is it? because what ever way you look at it, its still a picture of some guys ****.You're doing it again. I AGREE with you, a **** would be, and is offensive to MANY people, but this is a KIDS FACE. It doesnt make a difference what part of the picture you take, it's still just a goddamn kid's face.

[IcemanLeigh]

No, that is completely different again. Obviously you're not getting it because you are completely falsifying your own point.

Do I honestly have to spell it out for you?

Again you have just taken an image out of context to make it offensive. - This is what we call a deliberate action. You are simply trying to cause a stir.

Pirate (and liam) have an image that is a part of a harmless image which is still harmless. They have not deliberatly made it look offensive by taking it out of context like you have.. Were they zoomed in on the fat kids crotch? They have created an avatar from it, which you yourself have assumed is offensive. - Note the difference in terms of the action being deliberate..

[Pirate Balloon]

Yeah look man, i made my avatar smaller hours ago, and it looks a lot better now. You can get rid of Liam's, i dont care. But look at mine as it is now? Is it really hurting that much:confused:

[Pie In The Sky]

I agree, it is a picture of a child. Tbh he doesn't even look 'retarded' as you put it, I could pull a face thats makes me look strange, and then put that as my avatar, would you complain about that? A picture of a burning cross which is very offensive in many peoples eyes, and a picture of a penis (whether it be part of a art masterpiece or not) is so outragously different from a picture of a child. Sure avatars need to be kept clean, but I can in no way see how pirate/liams avatars bring down the look of the forum, and be "disgusting, degrading, and quite frankly, its just plain wrong" as quickshot put it.

[Innes]

the only way you will end this fued is to scrap avatars and sigs, but lets be realistic - IT WONT HAPPEN, so why argue???!



To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it.

[Mazzy]

ok some good points so far, but again, its not the image or what it represents, its what it looks like, and whether we should have some sort of standard to the forum.

[jodahunter]

this is really quite harsh on the kid. Calling him a retard, calling him offensive to people!!.

God help him get a bird if some random people think he's retarded.

Edit:

If we do go with ur logic about that kids face, we should find that kid and kill him so that no one has to look at him and get offended like everyone here at the forum has been......

2nd Edit:

:-O my avatar FTW

[Cackhandedchimp]

Oooh, finally something interesting has happened.

Basically, I reckon we should be able to have whatever we want, it's not a dictatorship.

However...

You should base some principles on those of the Garry's Mod Forums - basically if something annoys Garry, the head of the whole forums, he bans the people or does whatever he wants to stop things becoming annoying.

Basically, to the mods and admin team: Stop being so nice and be badass every once in a while!

Garry also bans people who post in spam threads. Do that. If everyone left the spam threads they would just sink to the bottom of the pile and soon enough Liam/whoever (I don't pay attention to who's a spamming cretin these days) would stop.

[quickshot89]

again, this is just plain annoying, every time i see that picture, i turn mb360 off, you know why, cos it spoils the forums, remember the time before these kids came, me and azure arguing etc, that was fun in one respect, im sure i can get along with azure now, i hope (care to say anything to that azure?) but really, i thought the whole having so many points until you were banned was in action, and as far as i can see, these guys have been getting away with far too much

remove the avatar, put a notice saying any pic blah blah blah will be removed

and its not just mazzy who thinks the pic should be removed, make a poll saying who thinks the pic is ok in forums, that should give you an idea on how to deal with this

[jodahunter]

BUT WHY QUICKSHOT!!! Why should it be removed?

If ur goin with the fact that u think the kid looks retarded, then that is really ****ed up.

[Mazzy]

BUT WHY QUICKSHOT!!! Why should it be removed?

If ur goin with the fact that u think the kid looks retarded, then that is really ****ed up.

its not cause it looks like i retarded kid, its about how crap it looks.

[Pie In The Sky]

Oh those are really good grounds to remove a pic on 'it looks crap'. Yeah good one, Mazzy for president :rolleyes:
IF that rule was put into place, then who would judge if a picture is crap or not. think about what you're saying before you say it ;)

[quickshot89]

Oh those are really good grounds to remove a pic on 'it looks crap'. Yeah good one, Mazzy for president :rolleyes:
IF that rule was put into place, then who would judge if a picture is crap or not. think about what you're saying before you say it ;)

im sure its not hard to do something in vB to make the avatar not appear until a mod or admin has approved it

[DayC]

its about how crap it looks.

Yes to you and a few others who believe the same. There is also other people who believe it is an image on the internet and don't care. This will only be solved by images being banned from the forum altogether which is very silly but that's the way it's going to end up if both sides don't agree that anybody should be able to post whatever they like within reason.

By within reason i mean please look at what you've posted Mazzy, you are comparing a child pulling a face to a guy's dick and the ku klux klan! I know you are trying to get a point across and that's fair enough but think about it, the child's face is not generally offensive at all wereas the ku klux klan are widely known as racists. (which is very offensive by the way)

I still don't understand why you have a problem with the picture, if you don't like it block it or something but some of us see no problem with it at all.

[Pirate Balloon]

Okay look:

http://www.psychoholiday.com/uploader/files/1/avatar_badasskid.jpg

How is that ruining the forums in any way? Jeez, It's not even that big, it's 60x60, and hardly distracting when you are reading posts.

It does not break any of the rules. The quality isnt bad either.

So if you think it looks bad, that's basically your problem to be honest. I mean, so, if i got a couple of people to agree with me, i could say i didnt like your avatar either and campaign for it to be removed. Firefox has a built in adblocker, so use that on the image if you really feel it's that bad.

Lets be honest, this isnt even about the avatar being bad now, it's about getting one up on me. Fair play if this is the case, but let's not try to hide it behind an avatar "standard" row.

[quickshot89]

Okay look:

http://www.psychoholiday.com/uploader/files/1/avatar_badasskid.jpg

How is that ruining the forums in any way? Jeez, It's not even that big, it's 60x60, and hardly distracting when you are reading posts.


no, it does distract, thats the point we are trying to make, the fact is it is distracting, it just make the forums look like a place where people can just post random crap, and get away with it, why cant you just understand that most people find these sort of pics degrading

tell you what, lets see a pic of you that is degrading, and see how you like it?

the original picture is supposed to be funny yes, buts its dark humour, you either like it or you don't, but once you remove the rest of the pic, it removes where it came from, and it makes it bad, very bad, ive asked plenty of people who go on mb360, and they have all said the pic is wrong. now, can we please have the thread locked, and no more is to be said until the mods n admin can think of a way to stop pictures that are offensive

ow, and you 3, grow up, stop coming onto the forum thinking you are better than everyone else, its happened many times through mb360's history, and quite frankly, ive had enough, and so have alot of other people

[carocat]

The problem with the original image in question is that it is just the head of a kid. It's not of a retarded person. removing an image purely on the fact that someone doesn't like it, is a different matter.

For the record, I do not like the image, I think it looks rubbish and wouldn't have it as my avatar, but that said, there are a few other avatars around that I don't like. Liam using the same image as Pirate doesn't bother me, as it is being reversed. And just because I don't like it, doesn't mean that I will remove it. It is personal preference after all.

The problem with the situation is that Mazzy used the image as well, I was under the impression that Pirate didn't want Mazzy to use it [as he said a few days ago] and I asked Mazzy to remove it. I stick by that. If someone used the same image as my avatar I would probably ask them why that person is using it and maybe ask them to remove it. That is [the way I see it] my right as the original user with that image.

That all being said, it all comes back to the fact that the image used is not offensive. It's a kid....

Other images in this thread however are offensive. An image of a burning cross which everyone will recognise as the symbol of the KKK and the statue can be deemed offensive. First one being the symbol of a nationalistic group and the latter one not necessarily being safe for work/viewing of younger members. Therefore the image is in my opinion not acceptable and I would remove it without second thought. Same for any other similar icons/images, such as an image of a swastika or anything graphic.

This argument has been going on in the staff section for a few days and staff are as split about it as you are [as you can tell from some of the staff who posted in this thread]. As said by several members [apologies for not quoting, it's late], removing an essentially harmless image is imposing a dictatorship which is not the way we want to go with this.

This isn't however the only issue raised in this thread. As Liam and Pirate are posting quite a lot on Matchbox360, the image is in many places. This has however been addressed in the other thread which received quite a few posts today. [Just why are people always so interested in arguments? lol]



So what does that mean for the future? Well, for once, I am going to close this thread, as everything has been said.

Secondly we are not looking into removing the avatar or restricting avatars/images. They are a form of self expression and some people change them quite regularly. If any change would have to be moderator approved we would have a lot more work, so that will not happen.

Thirdly, I want to ask that anyone who feels that they have any problems with each other or see any of this as a personal attack, please sort it out between themselves. I for one do not believe that Mazzy made this thread as a personal attack towards either Liam or Pirate, but more in an attempt to see what you members think, as the staff are divided on it.



For future reference, vBulletin allows members to place other members [not staff!] on Buddy and Ignore lists. To place someone on your ignore list, just click this link (http://community.matchbox360.co.uk/profile.php?do=editlist) which will take you straight to your profile.



Thank you, that is all.