Question with regards to competition rules

[AfroJoe]

Or more specifically, this rule:

"9. If a round ends in a draw (with one or more players from both teams still alive) then the round is a draw and is to be replayed."


Here's how our situation goes.

My clan (Team Monster B) finishes a round on the Streets against Citizen, with us winning 3-2 in this particular round. However, we were then told that this rule means that you have to kill everyone to win a round, and if you don't, it's a draw.

However, I had been led to believe (upon asking Carocat beforehand), that you do not have to kill everyone, and that if you win by points, you simply win the round.

So... what does that rule, actually mean? Whose side does it back up?

If it's the former, I have no problem saying that Citizen beat us, which they did, with us adhering to this rule. However, if it's the latter, then they have most certainly not beaten us, and played a match with incorrect rules in place.

As I said, I'll have no points proclaiming them the winners if their assumptions with regards to the rules are correct. But the fact that we completely had to alter our gameplan on the basis that these rules existed (when perhaps they didn't), is in my view totally unfair.


Can someone please clarify what this rule actually means and help us get this sorted out?

[Spindryer]

Thank you for bringing this to our attention, you will get an answer ASAP and we then announce the out come of this result there after.

[Equinox SMz]

The rule applies to the first

If you do not kill all the team then the round is classified as a draw.

So you could play hunderds of rounds just to get to 3-0

[MJMaskrey]

The written rule says that if the rounds 'ends in a draw then round is a draw and is replayed.'

That implies that Vegas has to class the round as drawn....so it would be equal amount of players alive on each side...a draw anyway you look at it.

Should a round end and one team have more players, Vegas classes it as a win.....so that round can't have actually ended in draw to be a draw. If you see what I'm getting at.

I think the confusion is the (with one or more players from both teams still alive)....this should be clarified as 'equal number of players alive on both teams.'

:)

[BIG D 04]

Yea this arose in our game aswell and I think it needs to be clarified as it could of effected the outcome of our game.

[AfroJoe]

The rule applies to the first

If you do not kill all the team then the round is classified as a draw.

So you could play hunderds of rounds just to get to 3-0

Well, then the ruling is very poorly worded.

Tbh, I knew that rule from all the Last Man Standing clan matches I played on GRAW, but upon reading that rule above, I assumed all you had to do was win by points, because that's what it implies.

[MJMaskrey]

If that is indeed the interpretation of it....all it needs to say is 'If both teams have any number of players alive at the round end it is classed as a draw and is to be replayed.'

But yeah clarification would be nice.

:)

[BIG D 04]

Yea it is fairly badly worded, why not make it simple. Something similar as to what MJ Suggests.

[Spiggy]

Clarification would be nice as we (Right As Reign) had played using the everyone must die ruleset and it would appear that (according to this evenings opponents) that was incorrect!!!

Which ruleset is correct?

I'm not going to start moaning about our loss but would really like to know if we lost fairly and squarely as after Team Monster A stated this rule (afterall they have a matchbox moderator onboard) we changed to more gung ho tactics, tactics we don't usually employ in looking for the quick kill instead of the patient approach which had served us well in reaching the quarter finals.

[carocat]

Ok, I'm looking into this now. Only just woke up and got up, so watch this space. Thanks. :)

[phatmuther]

Ok, I'm looking into this now. Only just woke up and got up, so watch this space. Thanks. :)

*cough* Lazy! *cough*

:D

[sub]

Would love some clarification on this one as well, woulda really changed the outcome of our match if it works on the points system not totalling killing the other team.

[KONSPIRACY]

Ok apologies for any misunderstanding but I thought it was quite clear n any issues could have been raised weeks ago!

Basically unless all players have been killed (bar the last man standing) then the round is to be counted as a draw n is to replayed.

[sub]

Would suggest revising that for the next tournament, might be one to put to a vote.

[BIG D 04]

I'm not going to start moaning about our loss but would really like to know if we lost fairly and squarely as after Team Monster A stated this rule (afterall they have a matchbox moderator onboard) we changed to more gung ho tactics, tactics we don't usually employ in looking for the quick kill instead of the patient approach which had served us well in reaching the quarter finals.

That's a bit of a lie, you used the same tactics throughout and you never agreed with what we said...We both agreed to the interpretations that we already had, so I think it's unfair to make it sound as if that if we hadn't thought that when it comes up "Team *OUR TEAM* Wins" that was the truth that you would of won?

We saw no change in playing style and you never once went on the offensive?

[MJMaskrey]

So what do we and RaR do now?

Only 1 round was affected...so as it stands we are 1-0 up (LVU) and 2 rounds to 0 in Streets...so we just have to play and win 1 round?

There was a difference of opinion on the rules but we then just played and left the debating to you guys running it....I didn't notice any difference to playing styles or outcome due to the varying takes on the draw rule...most round went all the way....the one single round they 'used gung-ho tactics and looked for the quick kill' was the round they won.

Anyhoo, I don't want to argue the toss so just let us know what we do from here.

:)

[Spiggy]

Did you watch our previous matches? No you did not, how can you say you knew how previous tactics?

We continually rushed forward on LVU everytime I was killed I was in or very near to your spawn, sitting back I don't think so.

[BIG D 04]

NAr we still won MJ as the results are like this....

Streets:
1 - Draw
2 - Draw (That was the confused one)
3 - TM A Won
4 - Draw
5 - TM A Won

LVU Campus:
1 - RaR Won
2 - TM A Won
3 - TM A Won
4 - TM A Won
5 - Not Played

[BIG D 04]

Did you watch our previous matches? No you did not, how can you say you knew how previous tactics?

We continually rushed forward on LVU everytime I was killed I was in or very near to your spawn, sitting back I don't think so.

You employed a different tactic on a different Map? Wow However the confusion was at the second match you used the same tactic on the rest of Streets for 3 more matches.

Seems as if ou were playing it the same way to me, you never once accepted our take on it, so don't try and pull that **** we just left it as our own interpretations and then it was up to us to consult the Admin. So don't try swing it any other way.

[AfroJoe]

Okay, so Citizen have definitely beaten us then.

I'm just gutted seeing as I asked Cat about this before and she told me that you didn't have to kill everyone to win a round. Must not have understood the question. :(

[Dragonov89]

but how is it a draw if you have more points i mean if anything this rule impiles a camping session so you only need one member to survive each round and you will be in a stalemate, in my match it was BH6 v BC and because of this rule the match lasted four and a half hours not complaining i just want to know how you came up with this rule?

[Spiggy]

I've consulted the admin.

I've also said I'm prepared to let this lie as this tournament has had its fair share of arguments and I have no wish to be involved in another.

Good luck in the rest of the tournament.

Should we meet in the next one we'll play with the correct ruleset and see how it goes.

[MJMaskrey]

Four and a half hours?!?! Holy crap!

I jokingly said to my mates that the next round has to be a 7am start and book the day off work/Uni......doesn't seem very jokey now!

:)

[AfroJoe]

Yep, it's a frustrating rule. Leads to matches taking a lot longer than they normally should.

The rule has been poorly written, which is why there's all this confusion about it. But hey, confirmation has been given, and we've lost because of it. Well done Citizen.

[carocat]

Just as a clarifiction: Whilst I am part of Team Monster A and a moderator on here, I wasn't actually there tonight and only came online 30 mins ago, as I'm really ill [which no one seems to believe me].

I was under the impression it's a draw if it's say 2-2 and then no one gets killed in that round and a win if it's 3-2 [or similar]. Looks like I was wrong.

This will be worded better for future tourneys though. Apologies for any misunderstandings.



[And thanks for the civil way of dealing with this. That goes to all involved clans. :)]

[AfroJoe]

Ah, so you DID understand my question. :D

Tournament moderators not understanding the rules, eh? Pfft, amateurs. ;) :D

[Dragonov89]

hey shows my team and bad company have more stamina than the average team :rolleyes:

[carocat]

Well, I did, but I interpreted it differently. Everyone makes mistakes! Cut me some slack here, AJ. :p

Shame you guys lost, would've loved to see TM A vs TM B at some point. ;)

[AfroJoe]

Heh, I'm surprised we both got this far, tbh. Team B especially. Barring these matches, we've pretty much never played together. :D

[Equinox SMz]

I personaly Feel that Right as Reign Deserve a rematch. As the rules were not followed. So a rematch is only fair.

As for the fact of matches lasting a while. all good matches last ages. It gives it a good mix

[carocat]

Heh, I'm surprised we both got this far, tbh. Team B especially. Barring these matches, we've pretty much never played together. :D
Kind of the same with A really. I never see MJ online these days!

[AfroJoe]

You can't demand a total rematch on the basis of one round of confusion, surely...

[Dragonov89]

hell have you sat next to those casino slot machines going of for like 2 hours "ping ping ping pong ping" it was maddening i tell you! and in the total four and a half hours we only had one toilet break!!!!

[carocat]

Looking at the results:

Streets:
1 - Draw
2 - Draw (That was the confused one)
3 - TM A Won
4 - Draw
5 - TM A Won

If round 2 wouldn't have been a draw, but instead awarded to RaR, what would that change for the end result?

What do you think about that Reight as Reign? TM A?

[AfroJoe]

hell have you sat next to those casino slot machines going of for like 2 hours "ping ping ping pong ping" it was maddening i tell you! and in the total four and a half hours we only had one toilet break!!!!

Maybe bring a bottle up to your room next time. Just in case. :D

[Dragonov89]

what about number 2's! "what do we do! what do we DO!" lol

[carocat]

hell have you sat next to those casino slot machines going of for like 2 hours "ping ping ping pong ping" it was maddening i tell you! and in the total four and a half hours we only had one toilet break!!!!
I would've probably ended up shooting them with my pistol. Those slot machines annoy me just by walking past them!

As for toilet breaks, haha, unlucky. :p

[BIG D 04]

What do you think about that Reight as Reign? TM A?

Hell No! We lose 1 round and have to replay the whole lot you have to be frecking shitting me...there is only confusion over one round and there's no way on hell that we are playing again.

[Spiggy]

I've already stated I'm prepared to let this be.

Just in future a correct clarification of the ruleset beforehand would be nice (not open to personal interpretation:p)

Good luck to all teams in the semi finals and should Matchbox choose to host another Rainbow Six tournament I guarantee we'll be amongst the first teams to enter:)

[carocat]

Thanks for that, spiggy. Highly appreciate it. :)

Shame it didn't come down to the 'battle of the k/cats' tonight, I was quite looking forward to it!

There will be another MB R6 Vegas tournament [with clearer rules] and I'm looking forward to playing against you then. [Or maybe have a friendly before?]

[Bonzo]

Good luck to all teams in the semi finals and should Matchbox choose to host another Rainbow Six tournament I guarantee we'll be amongst the first teams to enter:)
If that isn't good sportsmanship i dont know what is.
and yeah playing Bad Company for over 4 hours nearly made me crack, with all the strategies flying around and people playing physcological games with each other it made me physically and mentally exhausted.

[KONSPIRACY]

Thanks for all your debate on this subject and understanding from the teams involved. :cool:

Your points have been noted, however I would also like to point you in the direction of this thread which clearly states the rules:

http://community.matchbox360.co.uk/showthread.php?t=723

I understand that some of you have misinterpreted the rule, so for those of you that dont understand or comprehend the "draw rule"...

Basically you are required to kill all members of the opposition.

In a situation where 2 or 3 of your team mates die early in the round, it would be quite easy for the opposing 4 players to camp out and defend an area for a simple win based on points. The "draw rule" is this competition is rule also ensures the 4 players actively seek out n kill the remaining player rather than the remaining player hiding/camping it out for a draw (ie replay). Obviously in a 1v4 situation, the single player would have little or no chance in a points based game and this helps create a more balanced game in this situation (ie he/she still has a fighting chance). These rules do not actively encourage camping anymore so than if it was points based, as it encourages you to actively kill the remaining players to secure the win and avoid a replay...esp when both teams have equal numbers of remaining players (ie 1v1 or 2v2). In hindsight, it may have been better to set round time to 20 minutes as it may have made the reasoning behind this rule more understandable.

Now to quote myself...

Particularly in team survival, camping is part of the game and not against the rules. It is not cheating nor can it be considered unsporting conduct if one team has uneven teams and employs stealth tactics to draw or win the round.

GPS is unfair in this case as it means that the last man standing will have little or no chance. This also means that team can effectively see around corners and scout out the area ahead. These tactics can be considered an unfair advantage. If GPS is on you will see people in their spawn looking at the GPS map rather than actively seeking remaining players.

Teams can use all forms of tactics to win the game as RB6 Team Survival relies on good forward planning and a strategy...not just being a good shot. Hence camping as well as rushing have to be given the same merit.

If you don't like the strategy of your opponent or are finding it difficult to win against them, then their strategy is strong and you need to employ different tactics to overcome them (change your own plans accordingly). If you cannot find a player on the map then you need to learn the maps better and think of the hiding points or use buddy techniques on the radar to overcome this. Basically, if people are camping or hiding then play smarter and deal with it accordingly.


This tournament is to be completed using these rules, and all your comments will be considered for the next RB6 competition. Cheers :cool: